WHICH CREATION STORY?

Sullivan County Tenn ^ | Unknown | Rev. James W. Watkins

[papertyger]

Is it? I don't think so. Neither do all those missionaries out there teaching Christianity to folks who will never learn the Old Testament. Oh, I think that the Gospels are the key thing for Gentiles to read. Once they are understood, there is time to dive into the Old Testament.

What missionaries are they? I'm not familiar with missionaries that teach Christianity apart from its foundation.

I'm sure there are evangelists that look at conversions as notches on their Bible, leaving them to wilt after gaining a decision. Christ orders his people to make disciples, not converts.

You might think there is time, but that is a contrary to fact assertion as the Gospels cannot be understood apart from the OT. One can gain some insight by knowing the Pauline letters, but apart from the OT the Gospels are a familiar tune with unknown lyrics.

[Elsie]

Trickery is not required.

I had a little smiley...

[papertyger]

It's interesting that you use the word "shunned." I've always wondered why any Christian would "shun" anyone. That, to me, seems like a real denial of the core of Christianity.

Is it a denial of the core of the internal combustion engine to cool it with water?

[papertyger]

You are right that a belief about a literal interpretation of Genesis is not going to affect a person's salvation. But it does open them up to second guessing a lot of scripture.

Basically a Christian can err about a lot of different doctrines and still be a Christian. The key belief comes down to a faith in God and in His work of salvation through Jesus to redeem us of our sins.

Faith and belief are not the same thing. As I've heard it put in the past, belief knows that chair will support my weight, faith actually sits in the chair.

Puts the question of playing outhouse attorney with Scripture in rather a different light, don't you think? Belief tries to reconcile popular culture to Christianity. Faith departs from popular culture where it conflicts with Christianity.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Personal attacks on people not present and able to defend themselves when opinions on religious matters differ seems to be a staple with some Christians.

Sort of like a slap the other cheek commandment.

[newguy357]

Genesis 1: 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (the third day)

No, if you actually read the passage it is very clearly taking place the sixth day.

In the second version, the day is unknown, but definitely not at the same time as the creation of Adam....I don't know what God meant us to see out of this, but probably NOT that God created man and woman, and then did it again, but differently at a different time.

I don't know if you're being intentionally dull or not, so please forgive me if this post is condescending. Obviously (yes, obviously...well it should be obvious) there is no contradiction between the chapters. The first is a general overview "male and female he created them" and the second delves into specifics. By your reasoning, the following two passages about my hypothetical day would be contradictory:

1. Then newguy357 and his wife went to work.
2. Then newguy357 dropped his wife off where she worked and then proceeded to his workplace.

Please, it should be obvious to anyone with very minimal reasoning ability that those two sentences are not contradictory. They differ only in detail level. The biblical passages are the exact same. In sentence one just substitute "male and female he created them" and in sentence two substitute the whole story about Adam being formed and then Eve being made by his rib. Detail level. That is all. This is not hard.

[newguy357]

"He calls people idiots, that's how."

Don't you just love it when people showcase their Christianity?

Actually Jesus called certain people similar things.

[pby]

I am not an IDer.

Given what I posted, how do you equate belief in the FSM with belief in God the Creator?

There is no evidence for the FSM...As such, it would not be rational to believe in, or have faith in, the FSM.

However, as I noted previously, there are external evidences for the existence of God the Creator (Scripture, Manuscripts, Archeology and Fulfilled Prophecy).

You are comparing apples and oranges here. You can't replace God the Creator with the FSM without evidence.

Where is your evidence? What is the root of your faith in the FSM?

[peyton randolph]

I'm a deist. I believe that Nature's God created the universe. However, I do not believe in divine revelation, i.e. the creationist bilge one finds in Genesis.

[pby]

I might be one of those fire breathing literalists that you were referencing (I believe that the Bible is verbally inspired and literal and that it identifies when the reference is not literal) and I don't quietly disappear as the discussion [allegedly] begins to be more cogent and coherent, and begins to bring in logic and examples.

You already posted something that wasn't cogent and coherent...Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black?

In John 5:46&47 Jesus said, "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"

What did Moses write about Jesus?

Do you believe what Moses wrote about Jesus?

Why don't you believe that the creation event in Genesis is literal?

The Genesis creation event, along with Genesis chapters 1-11, are referenced, as literal, more than a few hundred times by New Testament writers and also by Jesus himself.

[pby]

Be cogent and coherent (and better yet...accurate) SuzyQue.

The Bible says that Adam was created on the sixth day not the third as you stated.

[Dr._Joseph_Warren]

Wow.... This was my Twilight Zone moment of the day!

I haven't picked up the Bible in quite some time. To prove a point with a friend, I just happened to read through Genesis early this morning and noted (for the first time ever) and mused over this specific difference between the two accounts of creation.

Then I go on-line and read this.

Do Do Do Do....

[pby]

What is your evidence for being a deist (there is no more evidence for deism than there is for the FSM)?

What is your evidence for your belief against divine revelation?

If you don't believe in divine revelation, then how do you account for the thousands of fufilled prophecies in the Bible?

[peyton randolph]

Morton's Demon is apparently alive and well.

[pby]

Did you look in the mirror again?

What are the evidences for your faith in deism and your faith against divine revelation?

Apart from divine revelation...How do you account for the thousands of fullfilled prophecies in the Bible?

Are you going to open the gate quickly and let these out or are you going to answer the questions and provide the evidences for your faith?

[DX10]

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2194

[Just mythoughts]

DNA says it is impossible for all human beings to have come from just two fully grown flesh beings. The Bible does not describe a miracle of different peoples, yet the Heavenly Father called his creation GOOD!

Now I know most Christians are told WHAT to think about WHAT is written but think about it.

Around this globe today there are many different peoples. Are they/we here by accident, divine DNA planting, or do you ascribe to a speedy form of evolution. Common sense says there has to be a specific explanation for what we see today, what is it?

NO I do not believe in evolution. I believe that the Heavenly Father formed each of his children and as He said, His creation was GOOD!

[peyton randolph]

My belief in deism is based on reason.

With respect to divine revelation, it is not my burden to disprove the absurd.

Thousands of fulfilled biblical prophecies? LOL. Vague prophetical ramblings can be interpreted after the fact to have predicted just about anything. Nostradamus' prophecies are just as accurate as biblical prophecies, i.e. not very.

[papertyger]

Thousands of fulfilled biblical prophecies? LOL. Vague prophetical ramblings can be interpreted after the fact to have predicted just about anything. Nostradamus' prophecies are just as accurate as biblical prophecies, i.e. not very.

Perhaps you could enlighten us on one of these vague prophetic ramblings. Do you have one in mind that is largely accepted by Christians?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.