EU states warned to accept same-sex marriage

Catholic World News ^ | 1/19/06

[dukeman]

The justice minister of the European Union, Franco Frattini, announced this week at the EU parliament in Strasburg that member states which do not eliminate all forms of discrimination against homosexuals, including the refusal to approve “marriage” and unions between same-sex couples, would be subject to sanctions and eventual expulsion from the EU.

According to a report by the Archdioceses of Madrid’s news service Analisis Digital, the commissioner’s statements came as the governments of Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Poland ruled against legalizing homosexual “marriage.”

“Homophobia is a violation of human rights and we are watching member states on this issue and reporting on cases in which our efforts have been unsuccessful,” Fratti said. In this way “the Commission and the European Parliament seek to make any refusal to grant homosexual couples the same rights as a married couple a crime of ‘homophobia’,” the report warned.

Frattini-- who was elected EU commissioner after the EU parliament rejected the nomination of the Catholic intellectual Rocco Buttiglione because of his opposition to homosexual unions-- has proposed “designating 2007 as the year of Equal Opportunity. The objectives would be to inform the public about their rights, promote diversity and, as a value of the Union, make this goal a priority.”

Some EU parliamentarians demanded specific sanctions against states that do not follow the anti-discrimination law and refuse to call homosexual unions “marriage,” for example. Michael Cashman, President of the European Parliament’s Intergroup on Gay and Lesbian Rights, proposed expulsion from of the EU of those countries that “do not adhere to anti-discrimination legislation.”

“If we do nothing we are accomplices in the crimes of violence that we see occurring in many member states,” said Cashman, who is also vice president of the organization Gay & Lesbian Humanists. The organization’s website says it is at war with “Catholic-inspired homophobia.”

Nevertheless, reports Analisis Digital, these proposals have been contested by Polish EU representative Jan Tadeusz Masiel, who called the adoption of children by homosexual couples “repulsive” and “shocking.” Likewise, her fellow Polish EU representative, Barbara Kurdycka, said the EU Parliament had no business telling people what they should think about homosexuality.

[Sam the Sham]

Precisely. Try imposing sodomite marriage on a Muslim country.

[Atlantic Bridge]

Maybe I serve as a reference to you: Since I had the questionable "pleasure" to know some real and dangerous relicts of the nazi tyranny very well, I can assure you, that they saw homosexuals just as "Untermenschen" ("subhumans"). "Untermenschen" are individuals that have to be exterminated (according to the ugly and crazy nazi ideology) since they would spoil the blood of the German society.

This was the reason why many homosexuals disappeared in the concentration camps.

And they never came back.

It is true, that Germany and Germans are and were sexually more tolerant than many other nations (I.e. prostitution was never a real crime). But it is also a sad fact that the German extermination machine was working perfectly in finding and killing everything that was different to the guidelines of the regime. If orders were given in the SS-system than there was no chance to change anything on the outcome. You can not imagine how cynical and ruthless those guys were. There was no mercy.


I understand very well that the children of the victims do not want to see the rememberance of their loved ones spoiled with perversions like homosexuality. But apart from the fact that those guys were poor sinners they have been primarily tantalized victims of a evil empire.

[Atlantic Bridge]

Many SS were homosexual, many camp commandants were homosexual.

As I told you in my other posting I had some insight into the nazi system. Therefore I can tell you that this is definitly wrong. There is for sure nothing more homophobic than an old SS-man.

People in the SS who turned out as homosexuals (so called "175er" due to the related article in the German criminal code) were put into a special section for former of the concentration camp in Dachau or into the "Strafvollzugslager Danzig-Matzkau" after being sentenced by the "SS-Gericht". Since the SS was somehow the "blood reserve" of the 3rd Reich it was espechially condemnable if a member was "erbkrank" (perverted by descent) and spoiled the purity of the blood.

[Atlantic Bridge]

BTW, Eva Braun and Hitler never lived together in the same house (until right before their deaths in the bunker) and never had sexual relations.

We know that Hitler was a strange guy. But there is absolutely no proof or sign that the could have been homosexual. Except of Roehm there were no other high-ranking nazis homosexuals. As I already said: If a so called "Roehmling" (a homosexual nazi) was found he had for sure nothing to laugh anymore.

[AntiGuv]

You may not know this, but there's an agit-prop book floating around that basically sets forth an argument that the Nazis were closet homosexuals and that the Nazi persecution of homosexuals did not take place, regardless of the extensive official documentation. The quality of the 'scholarship' is about the same as what you could expect of any denier of the Jewish Holocaust but a number choose to take it as fact anyhow.

[AntiGuv]

So, the way to look at it is, if there are quite a number who would deny the Jewish Holocaust despite the indisputable crush of evidence that confirms it, then it's hardly surprising that there are also those who would deny the Nazi persecution of gays that was on a far lesser scale (although still well-documented). It's usually an exercise in futility to argue with someone like that, in either case.

[little jeremiah]

Oh, so your anecdotal evidence and personal opinion trumps well researched history books.

I asked you to cite some references other than "gay" websites and anyone-can-post-any-crap-they-want Wikipedia and all you can come up with is anecdotal "all the SS guys I knew" nonsense.

If you can cite some authority other than your own opinion, you can ping me. Otherwise, don't bother.

[little jeremiah]

"Hidden Hitler" is an extremely well-researched book by a noted German historian. And people can scoff at "The Pink Swastika" because it is not published by a maintstream publisher but it is similarly very well researched. You should read both books if you want to learn about homosexuality and Nazis.

[Atlantic Bridge]

Oh, so your anecdotal evidence and personal opinion trumps well researched history books.

BuHuHaHa! I did some net research about your "well researched history books" and read a summary about "The Pink Swastika". It is amazing that people waste their time on such crypto historical BS since the content is really extremly idiotic in this case.

Anyway you are free to believe in whatever you want. Although such conspiracy theories are usually harmless, it is annoying that young people are getting the wrong information because of some false historians.

BTW - I have close insight into nazi history because my family knew the family of the former Reichsjugendführer Baldur von Schirach and several other high ranking nazis. My mother was the secretary of his son when she was younger. Von Schirach was in the inner circle around Hitler. In 1946 he faced the Nuernberg trials. He was sentenced to 20 years of prison in Spandau togehter with Speer and other war criminals.

I would say that this is a better reference than some self/home made books. It is obvious that the authors of this ridicolous pamphlet have a certain political aim. Anyway they do no benefit to the conservative matter if they falsify history.

[Atlantic Bridge]

So, the way to look at it is, if there are quite a number who would deny the Jewish Holocaust despite the indisputable crush of evidence that confirms it, then it's hardly surprising that there are also those who would deny the Nazi persecution of gays that was on a far lesser scale (although still well-documented). It's usually an exercise in futility to argue with someone like that, in either case.

Thank you for the kind warning. Since I did not know that the holocaust on homosexuals is used for political propaganda I originally thought that this man got simply the wrong information. I will not waste my time on this any longer. :-)

[little jeremiah]

Either you are naive and/or quite young, or have an agenda to sanitize Nazism of its homosexualism. One or the other. Naturally the PC crowd hates "The Pink Swastika". So, apparently, do you. It's very easy to scorn a book without reading it and checking the footnotes.


I suggest you read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich".

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671728687/ref=pd_sim_b_1/002-2889808-2931264?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

I know you're German and think you know everything there is to know about Nazis - I mean, your aunt or whatever worked for one or something - but William Shirer knew the Nazis were rife with homosexuals. Of course, he wrote his book before the "gay" agenda and political correctness revised history. Funny, homosexual agenda types always want all kinds of historical figures like Abraham Lincoln to be "gay", but they don't want REAL homosexuals to be "gay".

[little jeremiah]

"Since I did not know that the holocaust on homosexuals is used for political propaganda..."

LOL!

"Gay" activists are the one who use the holocause as a political springboard. Riding on the coattails of those who were actually targetted for extinction.

[AntiGuv]

I'm a historian of sexual behavior myself, and I've researched this topic as well as anyone using what archival records have survived. In my personal view, The Pink Swastika largely relies on conjecture, innuendo, and anachronism to fabricate a masquerade of scholarship. It's become something of a 'cult classic' for the opponents of homosexuality. Much of what it presents is "purported" or "unclear" or "rumored" and so on, with quotes taken out of context and strained leaps between such figures as Karl Heinrich Ulrichs, Friedrich Nietzsche, and Adolph Hitler, but is woven together as if it were incontrovertible fact. Moreover, it tends to rely on accounts from an era when homosexuality was a natural impugnment for one's enemies, regardless if there was any actual evidence to support the allegation.

If you want to read it, the entire text is online: The Pink Swastika.

[AntiGuv]

Or, I should say, it's woven together in such a way as to create the verisimilitude of fact.

[Atlantic Bridge]

Personally I am as homophobic as a man could be. To me homosexuals are poor perverted sinners who need professional help. Anyhow they are not the origin of all misery.

For a German like me it is interesting that there are obviously some people who transfigure their own really strange version of the holocaust into a sort of strange "religion". It would not be that important since those persons are usually harmless morons. The problem to me is, that some of their fairy-tales are believed by people who do not get other or full information.

If you need those fairy-tales - just believe in it. The facts are different. Hitler was no faggot but a big a++hole and Holocaust was brutal. No matter if the victims were jews, gypsies, jehovas witnesses, catholic priests or homosexuals.

BTW - If you want a good book about nazi ideology: Read the original - "Hitler's mein Kampf".

[little jeremiah]

It's easy to call stuff fairy tales without reading them. William Shirer's huge history of the Third Reich also notes that the SS was larded with homosexuals. Have you read it? I have. I've also read Lothar Machtan's "Hidden Hitler". Have you? You can even read it in German. Why not give it a try?

Instead you depend on your aunt and "gay" history revision. I'm not afraid to read books and learn. You could do the same.

[AntiGuv]

Have you read The Men With the Pink Triangle by Heinz Heger? It is only the foremost work on the persecution of homosexuals by the Nazis and it is noticably absent from the bibliography of The Pink Swastika.

[AntiGuv]

Or how about The Pink Triangle: The Nazi War Against Homosexuals by Richard Plant? Have you read that one?

[AntiGuv]

Here are some more works that are noticably absent from the bibliography of the The Pink Swastika, that you might in any case want to read in your fearless drive to learn.

Sexual politics in the Third Reich: The persecution of the homosexuals during the Holocaust, by Rüdiger Lautmann.

The Other Victims: First-Person Stories of Non-Jews Persecuted by the Nazis, by Ina Freidman.

The Gay Holocaust: The Dutch and German Experience, by Reimar Lenz.

Sexual Politics in the Third Reich: The Persecution of the Homosexuals during the Holocaust, by Jack Nusan Porter.

And these two that are cited by The Pink Swastika (since they had snippets useful to the author's message) might also be of interest:

The Hidden Holocaust?: Gay and Lesbian Persecution in Germany 1933-45, by Gunter Grau.

The Nazi Extermination of Homosexuals, by Frank Rector.

[Atlantic Bridge]

I know personally 14 former SS-men (I had to think for a while). No one of them is gay and I am sure that they all are extremely homophobic.

If the SS would have been larded with homosexuals I would know that for sure. Your books are obviously a form of strange auto-erotic. It is okay insulting the SS or Hitler since they deserve it, but some things are that absurd that they are simply idiotic.

P.S. I have learned from your homepage that you are deeply stricken in the issue. You even have a homosexual agenda pinglist. Just a question - what are your motives to engage that much over a rather unpleasant subject?