Replies

" Organized matter and laws do not exist by virtue of theological claims."

The point is we have NO IDEA why things exist the way they do. Saying that it's a designer/God is a theological, not a scientific claim.

"Is it just because a good many people attribute them to God; just because organized matter and laws concur with certain ideas deemed "religious?"

Gay jeans argument.

" I said public "context."

*Public context* could mean anything. A gevernment school is not a street corner. The children there can not just walk out and leave. While they are there, they are at the mercy of whoever is teaching.

" The law prohibits any one them to be favored or discriminated against on a religious basis."

The law prohibits them from establishing religion. Teaching ID (a theological claim) is an establishment of religion.

"Public schools are obligated to allow religious viewpoints a hearing, whether it be in a class orientated to one of the sciences, or a class orientated toward sports."

No, they are obligated to teach NO religious viewpoints. Any teaching of a religious viewpoint as true is an establishment of religion.

" Allowing the presentation of certain points of view is what you call "indoctrination?"

When you have children as captive audiences in your class and you start teaching them a theological claim, you are indoctrinating them.

"Or maybe you think they need to be controlled lest they hear the wrong ideas."

That's your view. You think people need to be taught theology, your theology, and it burns you inside that they can't be because of a Constitution you despise.

"You are free to indulge non-theistic notions by themselves in your own little school house."

A government run school can ONLY teach non-theistic claims. You have it totally backwards (as usual).

"Once you open the doors to the public and have the public pay for them, then their views get to be heard, too, no matter how afraid you are that you and your children might be "indoctrinated."

The Constitutional ban on the establishment of religion disagrees with you. It's precisely because the public is paying for these schools that any theological claims have to be curtailed. When you pay for the school with private monies, you can teach any religious view you wish. Not with public money.

The point is we have NO IDEA why things exist the way they do. Saying that it's a designer/God is a theological, not a scientific claim.

BS. When we come acrioss a humanly designed artifact we have at least some idea why it exists the way it does. As I said, there is nothing inherently "religious" about organized matter that serves a purpose, whether we know it is humanly organized or not. You've built yourself a nice straw man. Hold it tight.

Teaching ID (a theological claim) is an establishment of religion.

Please specify which religion is established by suggesting that organized matter that behaves according to laws may be the result of intelligent design. You have thuosands to choose from, none of which the governement may favor. Please explain to me how such a religion is established when the non-theistic points of evolution are also allowed at the same time. It has always been my contention that both points of view should be presented to the "captive" audience. That has not been your contention. You are not the champion of free inquiry you paint yourself to be.

A government run school can ONLY teach non-theistic claims.

You've swallowed a lie and become its mouthpiece. The public is made up of both secular and religious people. Does that fact escape you?

You think people need to be taught theology, your theology . . .

Nah. Most people know intuitively that the universe is not the product of random particles assembling into patterns and organization beyond the capacity of human intellect to conceptualize or quantify. Most people also know intuitively there is a God. If anything, they need to be taught to ignore or discard that intuitive knowledge, which is why evolutionists have to work so hard at their teaching and have it enforced by law to the exclusion of anything else.