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To: tgambill
1. FACT: The universe is only billions of years old, not quadrillions of a near infinite number of years. "

"This means that most of the Religious and philosophical systems depends on infinite or near infinite age, which has no foundation in reality. "

I'm not sure how you jump from the ~15 byo age of the universe to the need for religion and philosophy to use or relate infinite age, but there is no cause/effect or correlation there. The true age of the universe and the speculations of Philosophy and Religion are independent. All you needed to do was state that some philosophy and religion deal with states beyond reality.

"2. FACT: The universe can be traced back to a single, ultimate origin of matter, energy, time and space (with the dimensions of length, width, and height).

"This means the cause of the universe - was brought into existence by a creator.

Again, your logic is taking a large jump. Within the first Planck second there was no need for cause/effect. Before that there was no need for a creator.

"It[The creator] also exists and is created from outside of matter, energy, and space time dimensions of our known universe. "

The existence of the universe does not prove the existence of a creator.

Your concept of 'beyond' the universe brings up a few questions. If this 'void' can lead to the creation of a creator does the creator have substance? Can a non-substancial creator create something physical? What or who created the creator? If the creator can be created, who created the creator's creator? If the creator did not have a creator but 'self created' because of some feature of this void, what prevents the universe from 'self creating' in the same manner in this same void?

"3. FACT: This fact is very compelling, in that our galaxy, universe, and solar system, shows more than 60 characterics that require fine tuning and exactness for their very existence and also for the existence of life.......

The specific universal characteristics become irrelevant if the multiverse exists. There is also something to be said for the idea that only those characteristics are possible. It could also be the luck of the draw, sometimes the Ace *is* the first card drawn.

I have no idea what characteristics the galaxy has necessary for life, but they would all be covered by the universal characteristics.

As far as the Solar system characteristics, such as distance from the sun, type of sun, size of earth, presence of a large satellite, those did not have to occur in this specific galaxy, in this specific point in the galaxy, at this specific time. This just happens to be the galaxy where those conditions occurred.

"and not just life as we know it. That is the tune of science fiction.

Sorry, but the conditions of our solar system, or rather the absence of those specific conditions, do not preclude some form of life from existing.

"What does this mean...well only a super-intelligent, super-powerful Person could design and manufacture what we see, to include life.

This is a rather large jump in logic. Your argument does not prove a creator. Even if your argument did suggest a creator of the universe your anthropomorphizing of it is unfounded. It would be just as likely a non-person or a non-intelligence created the universe as a 'person'.

"Even Einstein who was a non-believer in God, proved to his dismay that there was the presence of a "superior reasoning power". He was not happy with this to the extent that he modified his theories.

Irrelevant to your argument. BTW, he didn't change any of his work because he found evidence of a god.

"In short, the beliefs back in the turn of the century was that the universe was static and infinite. Einstein's theory, Hubble's Red shift theories circa 1931, demonstrated that the universe was expanding and decelerating.

"This means that is had a beginning point. Check this out......on your own. Enstein finally conceded to the necessity for a beginning.

A beginning does not imply a creator, just a beginning.

"As many intellects, Einstein wrestled with the age old paradox of a personal God. I won't bore you with this paradox but it has held many back from believing in this personal God.

Good for Einstein. However because someone as notable as Einstein questions his beliefs is not an argument for a creator. I suspect that Einstein would require validating evidence before believing something based on an appeal to authority.

575 posted on 01/18/2006 8:50:34 AM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: b_sharp
A beginning does not imply a creator, just a beginning.

Oh?


An object at rest tends to stay at rest unless acted upon by an outside force.

583 posted on 01/18/2006 9:17:39 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: b_sharp

"Irrelevant to your argument. BTW, he didn't change any of his work because he found evidence of a god."

******I'll answer some of your questions in a few. Many are made from your 4th dimensional view as a human and I understand. The other assertions are not scientifically correct about what you state. The science and Religion is directly related like hand and glove. You are not aware of this.

Secondly, it's a fact from extensive research that Einstein's reactions to his own equations acknowledged the threat of an encounter with God. Look up details concerning his cosmological inferences from the theory of Relativity. Before he published these works he searched for a way to fix up the equations. Whatever he could do to make the universe a static solution. In other words, a universe that is expanding and decelerating, demonstrates that it had a beginning. If you don't agree with this, I suggest that you do your own investigation and see for yourself. Investigate the "de Sitter Effect".....and work of Howard Robertson of 1928. In 1914, Vesto Slipher had a chance discovery in 1914, that a number of Nebulae were receding away from the Earth as very high speeds. Also the discoveries of Edwin Hubble.

Now, the idea of an exploding universe was not well accepted by the scientific community. Einstein was very blantant aboutt he idea of a beginning point. Hubble's law of red shifts caused Einstein to discard his cosmological constant, to an unhappy conclusion. Because the universe had a beginning gave way to the presence of a superior reasoning power.....events don't just happen for no reason therefore the big bang (proved by science), has a cause and a power that made it happen. Einstein just couldn't accept the personal God idea......

So, Einstein's first theory went along with current thinking then, to a static universe meaning that the universe was always here, no beginning and no end. Thus no creator. However, with an expanding and decelerating universe as evidenced by Einsteins previous theory, and supported by Hubble's Red shift theory, (proven now), demonstrated a universe that had a beginning. This means its not infinite but finite.......with a creation and an end. The proof of a creator. He did change his cosmological constant to reflect a static universe until it was proven incorrect.....Do a little more research.......


587 posted on 01/18/2006 9:28:36 AM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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