Israel rules Pollard not prisoner of Zion

Science Daily ^ | January 16, 2006

[Howlin]

JERUSALEM, Jan. 16 (UPI) -- Israel's high court ruled Monday against convicted spy Jonathan Pollard's request to be deemed a prisoner of Zion and repatriated from the United States.

Pollard, a civilian U.S. Naval intelligence analyst pleaded guilty to espionage on June 4, 1986, and received a life sentence and a recommendation that he never be paroled.

He was granted Israeli citizenship in 1996 after Israel recognized his status as a spy and pledged to fund his legal expenses, the Jerusalem Post reported.

However, in court the government argued that Pollard cannot be granted the status because Zionist organizations and activities are not banned under U.S. law.

Pollard's wife, Esther, told Army Radio she found it "unbelievable" that Israel would work to release killers in other countries but let Pollard stay in prison.

[familyop]

And read about the Six Day War.

[familyop]

"Israel is estimated to have between 100-200 nuclear weapons, most of which are smaller tactical nukes. This arsenal would not be nearly enough to destroy all of Israel's enemies and using these weapons would probably ensure Israel's destruction because countries like Syria, Iran, and Libya are suspected to have large stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and possibly even some crude nuclear devices. These nations all have the means to deliver these weapons to Israel."

That kind of rhetoric comes from reading too many civilian, leftist conjecture sites. You don't know the sum of current Israeli nuclear capability, and you're dreaming about what the Islamist regimes can do. If they could have done it, they would have done it by now.

Your straw men aside, Israel will be protected from nuclear strikes (or are you in the dark on the state of anti-ballistic missile defense, too?).

What's Eurabia going to do?

[adam_az]

"Not to mention what our "allies" did to the USS Liberty with the jets we gave them. What has Israel ever done for the U.S.?"

You're a moron.

[adam_az]

"Why was Israel spying on us and why did they share some of the intel provided by Pollard with the Chinese."

My understanding is that he stole data about Arab countries which the US was supposed to share with Israel under an agreement but wasn't.

Can you cite the China claim? You know, something credible, IE not a thread on Stormfront.

How would you feel if the US abandoned a "spy" in a supposedly friendly country?

[Johnnyboy2000]

http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/2477.html

http://www.fas.org/asmp/resources/govern/crs-IB82008.pdf

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/576453/posts

Is FR crdible enough for you? You understanding of the situation is wrong. Do you really think Cap Weinberger and the Reagan Administration sent a 45 page brief to the sentencing judge because they had some free time? Pollard damged US National Security severely, and your friends got a lot of our people executed by the Soviets.

And calling someone a moron is good way of showing that you don't have any real valid response to an issue.

[Johnnyboy2000]

"How would you feel if the US abandoned a "spy" in a supposedly friendly country?"


How do you feel that American spies died because of Pollard's and Israel's actions? And why did you put spy in parentheses? Is Pollard your hero? Do you want to be like him? Do you want to put Israeli interests ahead of American interests?

[rcocean]

"My understanding is that he stole data about Arab countries which the US was supposed to share with Israel under an agreement but wasn't"

What is your source for this?

In any case, Pollard had no way of knowing what top secret info sharing agreements were made between the NSA/CIA and Israel. He spied because he was:

(1) Paid
(2) considered himself an Israeli & not an American. Which is OK, except you're *not* supposed to keep your change of citizenship a secret and steal US governments secrets.

[rcocean]

"My understanding is that he stole data about Arab countries which the US was supposed to share with Israel under an agreement but wasn't"

What is your source for this?

In any case, Pollard had no way of knowing what top secret info sharing agreements were made between the NSA/CIA and Israel. He spied because he was:

(1) Paid
(2) considered himself an Israeli & not an American. Which is OK, except you're *not* supposed to keep your change of citizenship a secret and steal US governments secrets.

[Johnnyboy2000]

"That kind of rhetoric comes from reading too many civilian, leftist conjecture sites. You don't know the sum of current Israeli nuclear capability, and you're dreaming about what the Islamist regimes can do. If they could have done it, they would have done it by now.

Your straw men aside, Israel will be protected from nuclear strikes (or are you in the dark on the state of anti-ballistic missile defense, too?).

What's Eurabia going to do?"


The estimates are what is believed by intelligence agencies around the world. The arsenal cannot be all that much more than the high end of the estimate unless plutonium is growing on trees in Israel.

Also, don't call these nuts "my strawmen." I am not rooting for these people to destroy Israel. I am just telling you that it is a possibility. I am telling you that you should not underestimate your enemies. I was also pointing out the realistic fact that Israel cannot destroy all of its enemies. This is a fact. You have an unrealistic perception of Israeli military power. You also have a childish way of looking at the world that is evident in your suggestions that Israel can solve all of its problems nuking its neighbors. They would probably end up killing themselves with all of the fallout considering many of it's enemies are on its border.

Don't get angry because I observe the reality that Israel is not capable defeating Iran singlehandedly. It is my opinion and the opinion of many other informed people. 200 nukes could hit Iran and the country would be really messed up to say the least, but their psycho president would not mind because he is just that crazy. On the other hand, 5 nukes could literally wipe out Israel's entire population because it is a small densely populated nation. It is just a fact. I don't want it to happen.

And on the issue of anti-ballistic missle systems, they aren't going to stop a nuclear bomb on a truck. They might not even be able to stop a missle. It is new technology that hasn't been tested in a real scenario. It certainly could not stop a large scale missle attack, although that isn't an immediate threat unless Iran is further ahead than we think. And as much as you hate "Eurabia" as you call it, you should thank France for Israel's nuclear arsenal, because that is who sold them the equipment to start that program.



http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/

Here is an estimate of the arsenal from a non-leftist conjecture site

[JeffersonRepublic.com]

"Now you can say that these are triffles, but to dismiss them shows a lack of honesty on your side."

I personal feel is the US is not benefiting from the current relationship with Israel. Israel doesn't need American money or military technology, and America doesn't need the baggage that blind support for Israel brings.

I think Israel is a good friend which was proven during the Gulf War in the early 90's, but I don't think they should have such mindless support.

[JeffersonRepublic.com]

"You're a moron."

You must have spent all night thinking up this brilliant response.

The fact is; while the American government is willing to send our people to die for Israel, Israel is sending our military technology to China for money. If the US repaid Israel by sending military technology to Hamas, I'm sure Israel wouldn't consider it a friendly move.

Reselling US military technology to China and sending their spies to STEAL technology we haven't ready given them is not being a friend.

Blind support for Israel is not in the best interest of the US.

[rmlew]

I believe in giving people a benefit of the doubt and discussing matters rationally. I feel that is no modern Israeli group that is on a moral equivalence with these groups; however, that is not to say that there is not a legitimacy to the Palestinian cause. The sooner Israelis accept this, the sooner they will ensure their nation's future.
With whom would Israel negotiate?
Arafat and the PLO balked in 2000. Today it looks like Hamas will win any election.
The Israelis have decided to give the Arabs Gaza and most of the West Bank. The basis will be secure borders for Israel.

Look at the progress made with Egypt and Jordan.
The peace with Egypt and Jordan exist only as long as their regimes hold. The Muslim Brotherhood is popular in both.

[adam_az]

"You must have spent all night thinking up this brilliant response."

No, it was immediately apparent. I'm real perceptive like that. I have a powerful inbuilt moron detector.

"The fact is; while the American government is willing to send our people to die for Israel,"

When would that be?

"Israel is sending our military technology to China for money."

Not exactly. What are you talking about specifically, the unmanned drones? Go ahead and say yes so I can prove to you that you're a moron.

"If the US repaid Israel by sending military technology to Hamas,"

How about untold millions of dollars to the PLO as well as thousands of M-16 rifles and "anti-terrorist" training from the CIA?

"I'm sure Israel wouldn't consider it a friendly move."

Duh.

"Reselling US military technology to China and sending their spies to STEAL technology we haven't ready given them is not being a friend."

Which spy stole "technology?" Pollard? No, he stole intelligence about arab countries that the US was supposed to be providing to Israel in a sharing agreement but wasn't.

We have spies and steal stuff too. We spy on our friends. Our friends spy on us. Welcome to reality. I know, it's a bitch. I guess it's more fun to live in your fantasyland.

[adam_az]

"I think Israel is a good friend which was proven during the Gulf War in the early 90's, but I don't think they should have such mindless support."

The only mindless entities here are those who can't understand what I'm about to say. So long as we continue to play the foreign aid game (which I'd like to see dissapear entirely - all at once) then it's imperative that we continue to support Israel.

What you're proposing is that we cut aid to Israel - I never heard you mention cutting military aid to Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc etc.

[familyop]

"The estimates are what is believed by intelligence agencies around the world."

That's funny and megalomaniacal. You're not in the loop with "intelligence agencies around the world," and the FAS is one of the sites that I was referring to.

"...that Israel can solve all of its problems nuking its neighbors. They would probably end up killing themselves with all of the fallout considering many of it's enemies are on its border."

Try to join the military or find a fatherly teacher. Study leadership, tactics, weather patterns and a little about physics. The fallout wouldn't hurt Israel, and nearby targets can and will be taken care of conventionally. Hezbollah no longer has other military support in Lebanon. Try reading some real news instead of anti-American spews.

"It is my opinion and the opinion of many other informed people."

LOL! ...a shadow bandwagon.

"200 nukes could hit Iran and the country would be really messed up to say the least, but their psycho president would not mind because he is just that crazy. On the other hand, 5 nukes could literally wipe out Israel's entire population..."

..."200 nukes!" LOL! Your denials contradict your illusions about the capabilities of the nations you look up to.

Israel can knock anything that Iran can produce and launch at it out of the sky. And with very few nuclear weapons fired from Israel, the Iranian military and infrastructure would be stopped. And Iran's leaders would be dead. India eyeballing Pakistan as a cat would watch a mouse. Antagonistic, pagan Islamist nations have no effective nuclear offense and little more than millions of bodies for fertilizer to offer in any expanded conflict.

Iran's idolatrous leaders know that and won't cause any hasty move on our part with their ruse (ruse for the purpose of giving western Europe more cowardly excuses to blame us and more fully join them). But Iran is looking western Europe over for waves of ground terrorism while perpetuating a threat of nuclear exchange against countries there in the near future.

Even if Israel didn't exist (as you and your friends here obviously fantasize--see thread), Iran would begin to scare, extort and attack dhimmi western Europe.

Israel's tough. Western Europe's wimpy. What's western Europe going to do besides continuing to blame and try to keep the focus on the object of its hatred: the people of Israel and the USA?

[Johnnyboy2000]

"Which spy stole "technology?" Pollard? No, he stole intelligence about Arab countries that the US was supposed to be providing to Israel in a sharing agreement but wasn't."

You really have no clue what you are talking about. Take a look at the sites I sent you. Why would Israel need to steal intelligence on Arab countries from us? Israel has this intelligence service called like MOSSAD or something, and they seem to have half-way decent intelligence in the Arab world. Do you honestly believe that the Reagan Administration and the American intelligence community would be so worked up over Israel stealing intelligence about Arab nations. Why would the spy on us to find out about the Arabs when they could just spy directly on the Arabs themselves? Pollard gave the Israelis piles and piles of the nation's most valuable and most classified information. He gave them technology, he gave them info on the way the US Navy tracked Chinese and Soviet Nuclear Submarines, and he gave them the entire US nuclear attack plan against the USSR. Israel gave this info to the USSR in exchange for Russian-Jewish nuclear scientists being allowed to immigrate to Israel to build a huge nuclear arsenal. It is all in the FR thread I sent you. Be careful about calling people morons when you have no idea what is happening.

[familyop]

"I personal feel is the US is not benefiting from the current relationship with Israel. Israel doesn't need American money or military technology, and America doesn't need the baggage that blind support for Israel brings."

Well, you "feel" a lot and don't complain about our much greater amount and cost of blind support for terrorists. ...not to mention our US funding of quite a few Islamist regimes outside of Israel.

[adam_az]

"And as someone whose family members gave their lives liberating Europe from the Nazis I resent being called a neo-Nazi."

Just as one doesn't inherit their ancestors sins, neither do they inherit their accomplishments.

[adam_az]

Next thing you know these troglodytes will post about the "Kosher Tax."

[JeffersonRepublic.com]

" ...not to mention our US funding of quite a few Islamist regimes outside of Israel."

Islamist, Jews... who cares, we should give either of them crap.