Posted on 01/16/2006 8:10:56 PM PST by Howlin
Edited on 01/16/2006 8:30:39 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
JERUSALEM, Jan. 16 (UPI) -- Israel's high court ruled Monday against convicted spy Jonathan Pollard's request to be deemed a prisoner of Zion and repatriated from the United States.
Pollard, a civilian U.S. Naval intelligence analyst pleaded guilty to espionage on June 4, 1986, and received a life sentence and a recommendation that he never be paroled.
He was granted Israeli citizenship in 1996 after Israel recognized his status as a spy and pledged to fund his legal expenses, the Jerusalem Post reported.
However, in court the government argued that Pollard cannot be granted the status because Zionist organizations and activities are not banned under U.S. law.
Pollard's wife, Esther, told Army Radio she found it "unbelievable" that Israel would work to release killers in other countries but let Pollard stay in prison.
Nonsense. Nobody believes this. Not you, not anybody.
All valid reasons. More valid than I could type out.
My Occam's razor reason is China wants more money, high tech and wealth. It can do it the quick way by subsuming Taiwan under Chinese Middle Kingdom ownership. Follow the money. China used to want Taiwan for communist ideological reasons. Now it wants Taiwan for the same reason Saddam Hussein wanted Kuwait's oil and invaded them. It's a bank robbery. An instant acquisition of wealth
Taiwan is a major hi tech engineering and manufacturing country. Same as Japan and Korea. That's why China wants to absorb them, by war if necessary
You might disagree with what follows (and that's alright), but IMO, we should help build Israel's anti-ballistic missile defense and other defenses without stopping until Iran moves on to wake the west side of the EU up. And there's more in the mix (Freepmail to you).
Good.
"Pollard, a civilian U.S. Naval intelligence analyst pleaded guilty to espionage on June 4, 1986,"
actually, wasn't he only charged with mishandling 1 document, in order to avoid having any of the real issue (spying for israel) with him put in court?
Haven't they helped us give the chinese various types of our military tech?
"I do not know all the details concerning the Liberty back then, but I think that the Israeli's acted prudently based on what I know.
"
From an israeli viewpoint, bombing the Liberty might have been 'prudent.'
From a muslim viewpoint, the 9/11 attacks might have been prudent.'
From a russian viewpoint, trying to annex west berlin might have been prudent.
I can provide more examples of actions directly contrary to american interests where the aggressor might have found such action prudent.
what about an american viewpoint?
what i read in the press at the time was that when this was brought up there was widespread and vehement objection from pretty much the entire intelligence community. i would not be surprised if tenet had threatened to resign, etc., just to avoid this happening. Not that I have any idea what tenet's values are but if clinton didn't do it, he had a pragamtic, not moral, reason.
" but historically Israel has the best record of voting with the U.S.(in the U.N.) If any country is basically on the same page as the U.S., then it is Israel."
Whatever the role of israel in us foreign policy, using UN voting as a basis for any sort of judgement of israeli intentions is dubious, to use a mild term.
You have the first post on this thread listing ways that israel has helped or accomodated the US, thanks.
Only three quick questions/clarifications -
1. it is not known for certain if the attack on the liberty was accidental. There is certainly circumstantial reason to doubt it, but we will probably never know.
2. re soviet intelligence FROM israel, it is said that israel gave raw data from pollard to the USSR which they then used to unravel parts of the us intel network in e europe. this is another 'we will never know for sure' item but it would explain the vehement US position on pollard after all these years.
3. multiple reports over the years of our military tech being traded to china by israel, to the point that they were excluded from a major project recently. It would be more offensive if the chinese weren't perfectly capable of stealing the tech by becoming a sub-contractor here in the US instead.
Learn a little Middle East history. The Arabs went to war with Israel, not the other way around.
Nobody is interested in whether you, or anyone else wants Israeli to disappear. It's not gonna happen. :)
"Nobody does Israel any service by proclaiming its 'right to exist.' Israel's right to exist, like that of the United States, Saudi Arabia and 152 other states, is axiomatic and unreserved. Israel's legitimacy is not suspended in midair awaiting acknowledgement.... There is certainly no other state, big or small, young or old, that would consider mere recognition of its 'right to exist' a favor, or a negotiable concession.” Abba Eban on Israel's “Right to Exist".
"That looks something that Ahmadinejad or a member of Hamas would say."
You obviously haven't been reading what the above parties have been saying, or you are trying to label this guy. I don't see this poster calling for the destruction of israel, as well as far more verbally offensive things I am not reposting here, etc.
I don't think that posting something that is not very supportive of israeli foreign policy deserves being compared to the parties mentioned here. Some folks seem to have a wall of 'no-debate/no-think' when it comes to rationally discussing the pro's and con's of israel foreign policy and how it affects the US.
"America should only defend democracies. (That means every Palestinian votes along with every Jew.) "
palestine is becoming a special case in the sense that a decent amount of the population is being indoctrinated/trained to view suicide attacks as a valid political method. I don't see how you can have any representative form of government under those conditions, nor do I see how not supporting israel against this monstrosity is an option. This IS barbarians at the gates, in a manner of speaking.
Reading this thread is like watching the Golden Globes. Uninformed yahoos siding with terrorists who would just as soon slit their throats as look at them. Trying to ride the tiger. The Hollywood yahoos do it because they hate Bush. I can only guess the motives here.
"This thing has got to end. The Israelis have got to find a way to make peace with their neighbors. Or else they've got to go out of business, admitting a valiant, but failed, attempt at justifiable irredentism. The world, and the US, cannot afford another fifty years Middle East turmoil.
"
this has gone beyond just supporting israel. The problem TODAY in the middle east is not israel, but radical islam and the oil-funded countries that support it. There is NO concession israel can make that will make this problem go away.
You have to be real dumb not to see that. Keep the faith Becket. You have fallen for the cheapest trick in the book. That the lion won't eat you after it's eaten your more vulnerable companion
Islam is voracious. Has a fast feral learning curve and is eating Europe one small bite at a time via demographics
Unless executed, which would be alright by me, the traitor Pollard should remain in prison until he rots (perhaps longer).
http://www.ussliberty.org/report/report.htm
"Washington, June 10, 1967.
The Secretary of State presents his compliments to His Excellency the Ambassador of Israel and has the honor to refer to the Ambassador's Note of June 10, 1967 concerning the attack by Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats on the United States naval vessel U.S.S. Liberty,
. . .
In these circumstances, the later military attack by Israeli aircraft on the U.S.S. Liberty is quite literally incomprehensible. As a minimum, the attack must be condemned as an act of military recklessness reflecting wanton disregard for human life.
The subsequent attack by Israeli torpedo boats, substantially after the vessel was or should have been identified by Israeli military forces, manifests the same reckless disregard for human life. . . . The U.S.S. Liberty was peacefully engaged, posed no threat whatsoever to the torpedo boats, and obviously carried no armament affording it a combat capability. It could and should have been scrutinized visually at close range before torpedoes were fired.
. . . the Secretary of State wishes to make clear that the United States Government expects the Government of Israel also to take the disciplinary measures which international law requires in the event of wrongful conduct by the military personnel of a State."
There has been no statement in the last thirty-eight years by the United States government reversing or amending this formal position.
The Israeli Defense Forces Chief Military Prosecutor, immediately following the attack, filed formal charges recommending court martial proceedings against a number of Israeli military personnel.[36] The examining judge disagreed with United States position that the attack.
As a result of this blanket absolution, no one in the Israeli government or military has received so much as a reprimand for their involvement in the attack,[38] much less the punishment demanded by the United States ("the United States Government expects the Government of Israel also to take the disciplinary measures which international law requires in the event of wrongful conduct by the military personnel of a State").
If our treason laws had any teeth,Pollard would have been executed.Don't fret Johnathan,I suspect you will eventually be released to emmigrate to Israel.
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