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The Myth That Shapes Bush's World
LA Times ^ | January 15, 2006 | Mark Helprin

Posted on 01/16/2006 3:28:15 PM PST by Inkie

THE PRESIDENT believes and often states, as if it were a self-evident truth, that "democracies are peaceful countries." This claim, which has been advanced in the past in regard to Christianity, socialism, Islam and ethical culture, is the postulate on which the foreign policy of the United States now rests. Balance of power, deterrence and punitive action have been abandoned in favor of a scheme to recast the political cultures of broad regions, something that would be difficult enough even with a flawless rationale because the power of even the most powerful country in the world is not adequate to transform the world at will.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: democracy; markhelprin; middleeast
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1 posted on 01/16/2006 3:28:17 PM PST by Inkie
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To: Inkie

It would be interesting to hear Victor David Hanson
critic this article. Probably devastating!


2 posted on 01/16/2006 3:30:18 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: Inkie

Great... now the US itself is Bush's fault


4 posted on 01/16/2006 3:31:41 PM PST by Safrguns
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To: tet68

I know, and I would like to believe Hanson. But Helprin's view corresponds with what I think in my heart is true. He makes a good case and cites good examples. I'd be happy to be persuaded otherwise. However, while I support the war in Iraq as part of the war on terror, I don't have a lot of faith in any Islamic people anywhere, including here in the States, and I wouldn't trust them further than I could throw them. Sad to say.


5 posted on 01/16/2006 3:32:58 PM PST by Inkie (Attn Dems: Loose Lips Sink Ships -- but hey, I guess that's your goal))
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To: Inkie
Anything they conjure up to denigrate the administration is fine with these clowns.

"Balance of power, deterrence and punitive action have been abandoned in favor of a scheme to recast the political cultures of broad regions,"

Democracy establishes these features within the country. Otherwise what remains is strong arm politics. The politics of tyrants, like saddam and omar.

6 posted on 01/16/2006 3:35:25 PM PST by spunkets
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To: Inkie

Please do not avoid posting restrictions by posting the entire text in a reply.
Thanks


7 posted on 01/16/2006 3:36:17 PM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: Inkie
La Times material must be excerpted and others on this list.
8 posted on 01/16/2006 3:37:34 PM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: Inkie

He makes a good case and cites good examples.

Where?
Japan a democracy prior to WW II.?
Germany a democracy ? The Enabling Act ended that.

We would be better served by coddling dictators/tyrants
instead of instituting democratic states?

VDH would eat him alive.


9 posted on 01/16/2006 3:37:46 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: tet68
Possibly, but frankly, this IS one of the biggest misrepresentations of GWB.

It is a liberal Wilsonian Wopper.

That is not to say it couldn't be a good gamble...but a gamble nontheless.

10 posted on 01/16/2006 3:38:03 PM PST by Paul Ross (My idea of American policy toward the Soviet Union is simple...It is this, 'We win and they lose.')
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To: tet68; Inkie

The Claremont's own Richard Reed has posted a reply to his colleague:

http://www.claremont.org/weblog/004593.html

"...Bush is no Wilsonian idealist who believes that multilateral approaches or international organizations are sufficient for keeping the peace. His critics are furious that, in the final analysis, the United States acted unilaterally in Iraq rather than waiting hopelessly for Russia, China and France to see the wisdom of intervention. The former two have long-standing interests in conflict with ours, and of course are despotic regimes driven inexorably toward conquest or recapturing past glory. The last has been hopelessly compromised by the presence of millions of unintegrated Muslims who hate the West, especially America, “the Great Satan.”

Indeed, as Europe’s appeasement of the Arab world, its growing Arab and Muslim immigrants, and its own declining birth rate threaten to turn that continent into “Eurabia,” it is clearly in America’s interest to strengthen democratic and liberal institutions there. The alternative is another world war with a Europe dominated by Islamo-fascists. Here support of what is the right of all peoples everywhere corresponds exactly with what it is in our interest. The moment we become indifferent to democracy in lands that can threaten our own, we increase the dangers of aggressive wars against us. As Churchill observed, the aggressive nature of the Nazi regime was a direct consequence of its tyrannical principles, as Ronald Reagan understood about the Soviet Union. The spread of democratic government, where possible and necessary, is always in our national interest."


11 posted on 01/16/2006 3:39:51 PM PST by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: Inkie
Fairly well-reasoned but more than willing to pause for irrelevant attacks, the main problem with the piece is that it sets up a straw-man: "democracies" never make war.

One reply to debate this piece would be to take it from the other end. What are the tendencies of brutally oppressive regimes?

12 posted on 01/16/2006 3:45:35 PM PST by NutCrackerBoy
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To: Inkie

Synopsis: If we view the present day Middle East as a race between Islamism and democracy, it doesn't even look like a close race. Islamism wins, solidifies and unites against the West.


13 posted on 01/16/2006 3:46:05 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Taking a stand and speaking up imperil one's health, but friends false and true are thereby known.)
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To: Admin Moderator

Sorry, I have seen others do this so thought this was the modus operandi.


14 posted on 01/16/2006 3:47:51 PM PST by Inkie (Attn Dems: Loose Lips Sink Ships -- but hey, I guess that's your goal))
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: tet68

Where he talks about Turkey, Egypt and other Arab countries where majorities would vote for Islamists.


16 posted on 01/16/2006 3:49:32 PM PST by Inkie (Attn Dems: Loose Lips Sink Ships -- but hey, I guess that's your goal))
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To: Inkie

The author is an idiot. If he considers Imperial Germany and Imperial Japan to have been democracies, then why not Saddam Hussein's Iraq? They did have elections didn't they and good old Saddam won unanimously. That's at least as democratic as Imperial Japan.


17 posted on 01/16/2006 3:57:33 PM PST by elmer fudd
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To: Inkie

Not only does the U.S. expend a great deal of effort to usher politically impure states into a form of popular sovereignty that will not stop them from acting inimically to our interests, but in distancing itself from authoritarian states that are willing to work with us, it forgoes potentially critical advantages.

And this from the same folks who decried our dealing with
Latin American Dictators?
Why it's a catharsis!! A revelation!!
Now we are to deal with Brutes and thugs?
Funny that some would urge a Republican Administration
to do this!?

Baaaah.

Either we are the Guarrantors of the ideals we espouse,
and we spread those ideals or we are to sink into Islamic
tyranny.


18 posted on 01/16/2006 4:00:15 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: elmer fudd

Aside from that, do you believe that if a country is democratic it will not ever be our enemy?


19 posted on 01/16/2006 4:00:43 PM PST by Inkie (Attn Dems: Loose Lips Sink Ships -- but hey, I guess that's your goal))
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To: Inkie

It may not be our friend, but it's extremely unlikely that we would ever go to war with another real democracy. As much as I might detest France, I can't think of any real reason for a military confrontation with them.


20 posted on 01/16/2006 4:11:55 PM PST by elmer fudd
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