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To: bondserv; Ma3lst0rm; microgood
I believe in evolution which is horizontal or descending in complexity.

You "believe" incorrectly.

Supposed increases in complexity via RMNS, are actually horizontal evolution, rather than vertical.

Why, because you stamp your feet and insist that's true? It's not. And if you made the mistake of falling for Spetner's twaddle, he's a crank and he's wrong. Hell, even if he had been *right* his conclusion was rashly made on the basis of only *two* examples of *one* type of acquired resistance to antibiotics, and he would have been *insane* to generalize to *ALL* mutational adaptations based on just *two* (2) examples. But he did! And the creationists are just as nuts for swallowing that kind of idiocy whole (because they *want* to believe it), despite the fact that they'd rightly reject out of hand any *pro*evolution "study" if it was based on something that transparently bogus. Of course, at the same time, they hypocritically refuse to accept *any* research finding, no matter *how* well established and cross-validated, if it supports evolution (as every well-conducted study in the past 100+ years has done..)

Do you guys even believe the silly stuff that comes out of your own mouths?

If there was substantial evidence of increases in complexity - as the evidence requires for RMNS to be a viable explanation for life as we see it today - then I would consider Darwinian Evolution as a vehicle for life to become more sophisticated.

Then I'm happy to oblige:

Apolipoprotein AI Mutations and Information

Creationist Claim CB102: Mutations are random noise; they do not add information.

Multiple Duplications of Yeast Hexose Transport Genes in Response to Selection in a Glucose-Limited Environment

Evolution of biological information

Evolution of biological complexity

Evolution and Information: The Nylon Bug

Examples of Beneficial Mutations and Natural Selection

The evolution of trichromatic color vision by opsin gene duplication in New World and Old World primates

Gene duplications in evolution of archaeal family B DNA polymerases

Koch, AL: Evolution of antibiotic resistance gene function. Microbiol Rev 1981, 45:355378.

Selection in the evolution of gene duplications

Velkov, VV: Gene amplification in prokaryotic and eukaryotic systems. Genetika 1982, 18:529543.

Romero, D & Palacios, R: Gene amplification and genomic plasticity in prokaryotes. Annu Rev Genet 1997, 31:91111.

Stark, GR & Wahl, GM: Gene amplification. Annu Rev Biochem 1984, 53:447491.

Reinbothe, S, Ortel, B, & Parthier, B: Overproduction by gene amplification of the multifunctional arom protein confers glyphosate tolerance to a plastid-free mutant of Euglena gracilis. Mol Gen Genet 1993, 239:416424.

Gottesman, MM, Hrycyna, CA, Schoenlein, PV, Germann, UA, & Pastan, I: Genetic analysis of the multidrug transporter. Annu Rev Genet 1995, 29:607649.

Schwab, M: Oncogene amplification in solid tumors. Semin Cancer Biol 1999, 9:319325.

Widholm, JM, Chinnala, AR, Ryu, JH, Song, HS, Eggett, T, & Brotherton, JE: Glyphosate selection of gene amplification in suspension cultures of three plant species. Physiol Plant 2001, 112:540545.

Otto, E, Young, JE, & Maroni, G: Structure and expression of a tandem duplication of the Drosophila metallothionein gene. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 1986, 83:60256029.

Maroni, G, Wise, J, Young, JE, & Otto, E: Metallothionein gene duplications and metal tolerance in natural populations of Drosophila melanogaster. Genetics 1987, 117:739744.

Kondratyeva, TF, Muntyan, LN, & Karvaiko, GI: Zinc-resistant and arsenic-resistant strains of Thiobacillus ferrooxidans have increased copy numbers of chromosomal resistance genes. Microbiology 1995, 141:11571162.

Tohoyama, H, Shiraishi, E, Amano, S, Inouhe, M, Joho, M, & Murayama, T: Amplification of a gene for metallothionein by tandem repeat in a strain of cadmium-resistant yeast cells. FEMS Microbiol Lett 1996, 136:269273.

Sonti, RV & Roth, JR: Role of gene duplications in the adaptation of Salmonella typhimurium to growth on limiting carbon sources. Genetics 1989, 123:1928.

Brown, CJ, Todd, KM, & Rosenzweig, RF: Multiple duplications of yeast hexose transport genes in response to selection in a glucose-limited environment. Mol Biol Evol 1998, 15:931942.

Hastings, PJ, Bull, HJ, Klump, JR, & Rosenberg, SM: Adaptive amplification: an inducible chromosomal instability mechanism. Cell 2000, 103:723731.

Tabashnik, BE: Implications of gene amplification for evolution and management of insecticide resistance. J Econ Entomol 1990, 83:11701176.

Lenormand, T, Guillemaud, T, Bourguet, D, & Raymond, M: Appearance and sweep of a gene duplication: adaptive response and potential for new functions in the mosquito Culex pipiens. Evolution 1998, 52:17051712.

Guillemaud, T, Raymond, M, Tsagkarakou, A, Bernard, C, Rochard, P, & Pasteur, N: Quantitative variation and selection of esterase gene amplification in Culex pipiens. Heredity 1999, 83:8799.

I now await you usual lame excuses for why "that doesn't count", just as you and your ilk are cheerfully able to ignore *ALL* the overwhelming evidence for evolution.

Fortunately there is no evidence in the record,

You know, if you had spent as much time actually reading science journals as you do desperately searching creatonist blogs looking for something to reinforce what you'd like to believe, you'd have qualified for an advanced degree by now.

39 posted on 01/14/2006 10:18:10 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Ichneumon
That one link you have on 29 evidences of macroevolution has been completely debunked here:

Critique of 29 Evidences of Macroevolution
42 posted on 01/14/2006 10:30:05 PM PST by microgood
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To: Ichneumon; Ma3lst0rm; microgood
You know, if you had spent as much time actually reading science journals as you do desperately searching creatonist blogs looking for something to reinforce what you'd like to believe, you'd have qualified for an advanced degree by now.

I will refer you to a credentialed scientist who did the science.

A..E. Wilder-Smith studied natural sciences at Oxford, England. He received his first doctorate in Physical Organic Chemistry at Reading University, England, 1941. During World War II, he joined the Research department of ICI in England. After the war, he became Countess of Lisburne Memorial Fellow at the University of London. Subsequently, Dr. Wilder-Smith was appointed Director of Research for a Swiss pharmaceutical company. Later he was elected to teach Chemotherapy and Pharmacology at the Medical School of the University of Geneva for which position he received his "habitation" (the senior examination required for professorial appointments to European continental universities). At Geneva, he earned his second doctorate, followed by a third doctorate from the ETH (a senior university in Switzerland) in Zurich.

In 1957-1958 Wilder-Smith was Visiting Assistant Professor at the Medical Centre of the University of Illinois, 1959-1961 Visting Full Professor of Pharmacology of the University of Bergen Medical School in Norway. After a further two years at the University of Geneva, he was appointed Full Professor of Pharmacology at the University of Illinois Medical Centre. Here he received in three succeeding years - three ``Golden Apple Awards" for the best course of lectures, together with four senior lecturer awards for the best series of year lectures.

43 posted on 01/14/2006 10:30:30 PM PST by bondserv (God governs our universe and has seen fit to offer us a pardon. †)
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To: Ichneumon

BWAHAHAHA!!!

Consider that one stolen! The classic portrait of a creationist researcher.

69 posted on 01/15/2006 6:45:27 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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