Born or Bred?: Science Does Not Support the Claim That Homosexuality Is Genetic

Concerned Women for America ^ | 12/21/05 | Robert H. Knight

[JTN]

there does appear to be harm to the society by legalizing homosexual marriage.

Let me be clear about my position. I do not think that the government should legalize homosexual marriage in the sense of licensing and recognizing them. I think they should just get out of that business altogether. People can call themselves married if they want.

I think the Sweden was a case study.

Go on. I'm listening.

Scratch under the surface and you'll find that the problem for wagglebee is that homosexuals aren't being imprisoned.

You know this how?

Wagglebee's comments to me in #16 imply it, although imprisonment is possibly a bit of an exaggeration. Let me put it this way. I say wagglebee believes that homosexuality should be illegal, and if anyone wanted to make a bet I would give them odds.

[ArGee]

It doesn't destroy the argument that people who aren't hurting anyone else ought to be left alone.

When they try to create the notion of homosexual marriage and adoption, they are hurting others.

If they want to be left alone, they can stop making their sexual fetishis a mater of public policy.

Beyond the implications of the public policy requests, the homosexual lifestyle tells you something about the person's character, in the same way that the adulterous lifestyle tells you something about the person's character. You should be allowed to make decisions based on that information. Not decisions that would lead to violence, but decisions about association, hiring, etc.

I'm sure the Catholic Church would agree.

Shalom.

[brytlea]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/660zypwj.asp?pg=1

Sorry, Scandanavia, not Sweden per se.
susie

[ArGee]

Both are gay as well.

strong circumstantial evidence for the gay gene in that family.

It's also strong circumstantial evidence that the family was disfunctional.

Circumstantial evidence, like anecdotal evidence, is a bad source for public policy.

Shalom.

[gidget7]

People who have an attraction to porn, can stop as well, but many won't. Even if they are asked to. Does that make them "born that way"? Different you may say, but it's not. It;s an orientation just as valid as homosexuality is.

To say a person can't stop any behavior is just silly, and feeds into the enabler society we live in.

[ArGee]

That's actually the socialist argument.

Actually, it sounds very much like John Nash's argument. Calling any deviation from your viewpoint "socialist" is (on FR) akin to using the "Nazi" argument. It's an attempt to shut down the discussion, not engage in it.

If someone is viewing child pornography but never abuses children, is he doing any harm? Absent the issue of how the pornography is produced, you can validly claim he is harming no one. But society has a responsibility to ban child pornography because the freedom gained by those who could view the matierial without acting on it is inconsequential compared with the cost of those who can not.

Making such judgements is a requirement of a responsible society.

That said, nobody has mentioned (on this thread) making homosexual behavior illegal. Nobody has even mentioned making it illegal for the gays to gather at Disney World every Father's Day and ruin the experience for the normal families who want to see Mikey with their dads (although Gay Days at Disney, in itself, says something about the homosexuals). What we have said is that we don't want to recognize it as the equivalent of heterosexual behavior. So far there is no compelling reason why we should.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

Reading this thread made me think about how terrible it must be to always live knowing that some people despise and are disgusted by you, merely for being you.

Would it be wrong for people to despise and be disgusted by you if you were dispicable and disgusting?

Was Jeffry Dahlmer merely being himself? Were we wrong to expect him to change?

Some people are insufferable. Not just socially, literally. To stick their heads in the sand and say, "You should love me for who I am" is the height of arrogance and selfishness.

Shalom.

[RAY]

Thanks. Very long and difficult for this old brain to comprehend. Wish someone would do a correct summary.

[DBeers]

It doesn't destroy the argument that people who aren't hurting anyone else ought to be left alone.

That argument was destroyed resoundingly in 2004 and its destruction will continue...

[gidget7]

We don't care what they do, except to feel sorry for them and pray for them. We don't care either, to make what they want to do or not do illegal. However, we do care about them forcing the teaching of it as normal and healthy in schools. And we do care about forcing of acceptance, and forcing of endorsement.

Legal and accepted are two very different things!! For instance, adultery is not illegal, however, we do not condone it, or accept it as acceptable behavior. And the government is not being as to make a law requiring spouses to accept it as a state of legal recognition!

[ArGee]

Wagglebee's comments to me in #16 imply it, although imprisonment is possibly a bit of an exaggeration. Let me put it this way. I say wagglebee believes that homosexuality should be illegal, and if anyone wanted to make a bet I would give them odds.

From my perspective you read W's post with a great deal of prejudice.

Of course, I have my own bias so I could have missed something.

However, it smacks of a weak argument to presume the person with whom you are arguing of the most egregious position when it has not been stated. It's like saying, "I can't argue with someone with a reasonable viewpoint, so I'll pretend yours is unreasonable then argue with that."

Shalom.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

Families "know" when they have a child who is born gay.

Then they must also “know” who is born to molest children, masturbate, commit serial murder, or become another Buddha... rubbish... Michael Jackson...

The desire to mate is biologically heterosexual.

*Science Does Not Support the Claim That Homosexuality Is Genetic*

Neither does mammalian reproductive biology or the obvious anatomical functions of mammalian organisms.

‘Who is he that is not of woman born?’

[Albion Wilde]

The attention paid to homosexuality..., while ignoring straighforward sex, reflects the distinctly Orwellian effect that political correctness has on science: We now treat the differences between male and female as socially constructed and those between heterosexuality and homosexuality as innate and genetic. -- Dr. Jeffrey Satinover

Absolutely brilliant.

[AnalogReigns]

As an evangelical Christian with very traditional, biblical theology (which of course completely condemns homosexual behavior), I can't help but think that the "there is no genetic component" tact is the wrong argument to make...

Classical (biblical) theology, Protestant and Catholic, teaches that all of us are born in sin--that is each of us has a tendency inborn to sin. This is typically called a "sin nature" or a "fallen nature" due to "original sin." I have a tendancy to covet, commit adultery, steal, lie, etc. etc..... Without Christ in one's life, these tendancies tend to run wild--and people tend to stay the same or get worse.

One of the manefestations of that sin nature is in sexual sin....all of which, be it lust, adultery or...sodomy (or worse) is perversion from what God intends. The only completely unperverted (perfect) man was the Lord Jesus. Those who practice the sin of homosexual behavior are just showing their fallen nature....as do the 97% of us who don't practice that particular sin do, when we do other sins.

Because of my firm belief in everyone's inborn sin nature...which often shows up in patterns (be they be behaviorally influenced or simply hereditary) and our individual quirts and weaknesses, different people are tempted (and fall) to different kinds of sins. I for one, have never been very tempted to steal...but my Dad was not a thief, and I wasn't raised to think any kind of stealing was OK.....as some people are. However, coveting is another thing, and clearly my old sin nature shows up all the time. Fortunately my Lord Jesus helps me to overcome that old nature, and over time I think I'm doing better (but definitely not perfect).

Most homosexuals I've talked with can hardly remember a time when they did not have a homosexual attraction. However, I think the above article is correct in that there is no genetic link toward this particular pattern of behavior(though it may not be)....and many (many) I've read about were "recruited" in puberty or earlier by an older pervert...thus twisting their normal development. Even those who were not may have had other factors BEYOND THEIR CONTROL which influenced them toward perverted desires. And of course when they gave into those desires, the desires grew--in a sad downward spiral. Whether the no genetic component argument is correct or not though, who cares!? Like all sin-patterns the individual is responsible for it....however, and homosexual behavior is no more damning than heterosexual sin....(even if some consequences make it worse) and today, even in Christian circles, heterosexual sin is often ignored or treated lightly (why so many divorces, even among clergy!?).

Anyway, my point is, if the tendency to have homosexual desires is caused by 1)how one is raised, OR 2)some genetic quirk--it doesn't excuse the giving-in to those twisted desires. Alcoholism may well have a genetic component too, but we don't tell a drunkard to have another drink because he can't help it....but we do try to help them overcome their sin-pattern, and not just to condemn them.

Since society as a whole, since the '60s at least, has an "if it feels good do it, it's OK" mentality, this is the reason why the homosexuals have worked so hard to try and prove they were born with it, and can't help it, which, at least as far as their BEHAVIOR is concerned is bunk. One can say the same for any wrong desire though, so if inborn, or acquired--it doesn't matter, it was, is and always will be perverted behavior.

Like all people the homosexual (and heterosexual) sinner needs to turn to Jesus for any hope at all. Let's hope more evangelical congregations and denominations will take the lead in helping those who are willing to leave the downward spiral of homosexual behavior, to repent, turning back to sanity--forgiveness and purity.

[DBeers]

Reading this thread made me think about how terrible it must be to always live knowing that some people despise and are disgusted by you, merely for being you.

Reading your comments made me think how people continue to spout homosexual activist propaganda even on FR... Going so far as associating a person with a chosen disordered activity and implying that one must accept disordered activity to respect a fellow human being. You seem to confuse a person with what a person does? I would suggest that you are confused...

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

It doesn't destroy the argument that people who aren't hurting anyone else ought to be left alone.

I guess that is why Michael Jackson moved to Bahrain... maybe he can catch an exotic venereal disease...

[gidget7]

"Possible" doesn't cut it. There's no proof that a "gay gene" exists. It's a sexual fetish that has been morphed into a lifestyle, and is attempting to be made into a protected minority status."


Exactly!! As have many other so called orientation. As one here put it, he is oriented to go after every hot chick he sees, that doesn't mean he should act on it.

[RegulatorCountry]

I'm in a creative field, and so I tend to encounter more gays than most would, here on FR. In my observation, they run the gamut, from extremely effeminate in thought process, gesture and physical build, to quite masculine, to the point that you wouldn't "know" unless they told you. As a result, I can't help but speculate that there's more than one source for the behavior. Whether this is some sort of recessive gene, genetic defect or hormonal exposure in the womb, the ultra-effeminate ones are caricatures of women, in every way but one. The others, I really don't know what could be responsible, other than childhood sexual abuse.

This is just an opinion that I've formed over two decades of working in photography, graphic design, marketing and advertising, which do have far more gay men than most other fields of endeavor. If you disagree, feel free to flame. I know this is a hot-button topic, for just about everybody. It's my two cents on the matter, for what that's worth.