Posted on 01/13/2006 8:14:42 AM PST by pabianice
A replica of one of Germany's greatest technological triumphs late in World War II, the Messerschmitt Me.262 fighter jet, has left American soil and reached Germany after U.S. State Department officials delayed it 60 days because they saw it as a weapon of war.
The four 30 mm replica cannons aboard lack a firing mechanism and still wouldn't fire if they had one. The aircraft now has arrived in Germany where it will be reassembled by the Messerschmitt Foundation aircraft collection and flown once again.
The replica project has been taken over by a group of retired Boeing engineers operating in Everett, Washington, as Legend Flyers. The aircraft are for sale by Air Assets International/Warbird Recovery in Colorado. Messerschmitt granted five additional serial numbers. Two have been built, with three to go.
Re: "The first ever jet combat was a Gloucester Meteor against one of these 262's"
From http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/korea50/k50-2.htm
After defeating the NKAF, UN air forces enjoyed a period of air supremacy until the arrival of the MiG-15 in November 1950. Initially flown in combat by Soviet pilots, and later by Chinese and North Koreans, the MiG-15 potentially threatened to wrest control of the air away from UN forces, as it seriously outclassed the best USAF fighter in Korea, the F-80C. Even so, F-80 pilots were able to turn inside the MiGs when attacked and scored some victories.
In fact, on November 8, 1950, in the first jet-to-jet combat in history, Lt. Russell Brown scored the first victory against a MiG-15.
Re: "The cannons tended to kick the plane around a bit. At 500mph, you were possibly in for a flameout from the concussion of the 4 30mm's."
You are confusing the recoil of the 30mm of today's A-10 Warthog with the 30mm cannons used in World War Two. Where the A-10's 30mm will actually slow the plane down, the four 30mm connons in the Me-262 were way less powerful and had no where near the recoil of the A-10's GAU-8 Avenger.
Well...it IS catholic according to Webster,
I like Black Oak Arkansas, Bagpipes, and the local Jazz station as well.
(But close?)
Russians, and to lesser extent Germans, designed around lower velocity, lower recoil, cannon. IIRC, the 75mm armed B-25 just about stopped cold (but briefly).
Not to mention lowering casualties.
Re: Robert A. Cook, PE "No, it was the F-101 Starfighter that DID shoot itself down. Y-12 couldn't mount the guns (no holes!) in the fuselage or wing leading edge because of the stealth panels and heat-resistance metal.
"Spanish flier I think, NATO certainly, dived into the combat range to strafe (I know, I know - F-101 strafing .. Maybe he thought he was in a A-10 or Stuka).
"While in a dive, he shot the minigun, pulled out (lower down of course but in exactly the same course) and pulled up into the bullets he had just shot."
First incident of this happened at China Lake Range in 1949. One of the first production F9F-2 Panthers was doing strafing runs firing its four 20mm cannons. On a steep dive, the plane actually overtook the slow muzzle velocity of the cannon shells and rammed them.
The surprise pilot managed to land and they found several of the shells embedded in the forward fuselage! The rounds had not exploded because they went in backwards...
It has been several years (40 or so) since I read this in Readers Digest and there was a website on the F9F Panther that also told the story, but I cannot find it...
"Close" only count in horseshoes and nukes.
And, of course, when Texas A&M developed the Atomic Hand Grenade... ;^b)
PS: Most of my family are Aggies... Those that survived, that is!
Wow. The Me-262 is a "weapon of war." I wonder how it would stand up against all those MiGs (15-29, inclusive) that any bozo could pick up for about fifteen bucks and a carton of Marlboros at the big Warsaw Pact yard sale in the mid-'90s.
I remember a guy in '96 or so who had a pretty good business going, buying MiGs from places like Romania that were ditching them at scrap-metal prices, fixing them up and reselling them. The -17 trainer was his favorite, because it had a good range, a little cargo space, and a back seat so he could take someone else along for a weekend getaway.
The -23 (or was it the -29?) was plenty exciting, but it was designed for mid-air refueling. It could only take off on afterburner, so he said -- jokingly or not, I'm not sure -- that part of his checklist was to declare a fuel emergency on takeoff.
Re: "Wow. The Me-262 is a "weapon of war." I wonder how it would stand up against all those MiGs..."
Poorly. The Me-262 was vastly underpowered. The Mig 15 was superior to the 262.
But IMHO the 262 was much better looking!
Yeah. That was sarcasm. The basic point was that the State Department was worried about someone getting hold of a Me-262 as a "weapon of war", when a MiG in good condition is cheaper than a Studebaker in good condition.
For what it costs to build a Me-262 replica, I could buy a couple or three MiGs. Or go to Brazil and bribe someone at Embraer to rig up a jet with some some guns for me.
But IMHO the 262 was much better looking!
There are two reasons to fly a fighter: 1) to win a dogfight, and B) to get babes.
However slick the 262 looks, you'll eventually have to talk her back to your Buick. So I come back to the value of the second seat in the MiG-17T.
Re: "However slick the 262 looks, you'll eventually have to talk her back to your Buick. So I come back to the value of the second seat in the MiG-17T."
Well, there is the two-seater Me-262-B-1c...
Stormbirds website http://www.stormbirds.com/project/general/profiles.htm says two ariframes are available!
However slick the 262 looks, you'll eventually have to talk her back to your Buick. So I come back to the value of the second seat in the MiG-17T.
Now, that I'd like to see!
You twisted ... um, individual. I wasn't talking about the conjugal act *in* the plane. I was just talking about flying off to somewhere tropical, with white sand and ovrproof rum where nature could take its course.
What are they using for engines?
Sorry, didn't read your link. GE CJ610s. Learjet engines. Whale of an improvement over the original Jumos, as they should be.
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