Attorney: Despite Dover Ruling, Intelligent Design Won't Go Away

Agape Press ^ | 1/6/06 | Jim Brown

[Coyoteman]

If not in the classroom, where?

Do you really want to expose your, and others', religious beliefs to scientific scrutiny?

Science generally leaves religion pretty much alone, and until the Wedge Strategy, religion pretty much left science alone.

Now, there has been a major Trojan horse attack on science by some creation proponents under the guise of ID.

If you bring religious belief/ID into the science or the philosophy classroom you are not exempt from a critical examination. Do you really want that?

As an example, do you want a scientific analysis of the biblical version of the global flood? The evidence for a global flood is not good.

Is it not better to leave well enough alone?

[RunningWolf]

Education was doing just fine years ago, and evo had zilch to do with it.

[Just mythoughts]

"Education was doing just fine years ago, and evo had zilch to do with it."


Yes back in the days before education got socialized.

[cdgent]

Science (and math, and literature, etc) advances as more becomes known. Modern molecular and genetic biology is based on and dependant on evolution. Would you prefer that future doctors and reseachers ignore drug-resistant bacteria because they evolve?

I'm sure people thought education was just fine when the Earth was the center of universe also.

[jwalsh07]

Is it not better to leave well enough alone?

Surely you jest.

You are going to falsify God? Do tell, how?

Maimonides and Aquinas both tell us the same thing. If science conflicts with our interpretation of the Bible, then we must reconsider that interpretation.

Or do you think it is your intellect that we should fear?

[roadking95th]

Scientific analysis of any theory concerning the creation and/or dating of the Earth "is not good." Nor is it good in regards to "occurrences" happening millions and billions of years ago. Carbon 14 dating is seriously flawed as are Potassium-Radon and Uranium-Lead methods. With an open mind, that being key, one could make as well of an argument for the flood as one could for other theories.

I am just stating, regardless of ones beliefs, ID has merit. Schools should be teaching our kids how to learn and make decisions on their own. How can this happen when most of education is rigid.

[GSlob]

"Let's suppose that ID is correct. Science, at its' essence, is merely the study of nature/universe."
ID is not a part of nature, and thus is not, and cannot, be a part of any study of nature/universe. ID deals with things supernatural. Let's suppose instead that granny has different anatomy. Why, she'd then be a grandpa! And such transformations are known in different mythologies [say, ancient Greeks' Thiresius [sp?] myth]. So, which class should this one be mentioned in? - Ancient Greek civ, Greek mythology, Classics and the like. But science?

[roadking95th]

When exactly, in reference to The Theory of Evolution, has bacteria "evolved?" Does it, being the bacteria, "evolve" into a new SPECIES, or does it merely mutate. I think you are confused on the subject of evolution.

[roadking95th]

Last time I checked, we did not have evidence supporting Greek Mythology. We do, however, have evidence that points to the possibility of ID.

[cdgent]

>> I am just stating, regardless of ones beliefs, ID has >> merit.

Examining weaknesses in scientific theories and proposing revisions has merit, and IS critical thinking. Claiming that anything we don't understand yet can never be known and must be the result of a supernatural designer is intellectual laziness.

[RunningWolf]

I'm sure people thought education was just fine when the Earth was the center of universe also.

Well that is a good point and it ties into contemporary science.
Mans theories may not reflect reality in its totality, or correctly, or even in a tiny subset, and yet he makes advances on those theories.

So no, I do not suggest doctors and researcher's ignore drug-resistant bacteria.

Whether the bacteria 'evolve' or not is a concept that may or may not survive 'the evolution of perception' irregardless of the thousands of peer reviewed articles out today, yes as during yesterday also.

The Universe is infinite therefore where is its center, or is everywhere a center?

Red shift theory implies a center does it not? Otherwise there must be other reasons for red shift phenomena. I think there is yet to be discovered.

Wolf

[Herford Turley]

Yep. These people live in a completely different world.

[cdgent]

As an organism, such as staph bacteria, developes new adaptations, such as vandomycin resistance, significant structural and genetic differences develop between the two variants. Sometimes, in fact, demonstrating more genetic difference than sequencing has shown to be present in different species.

This is exactly the theory of evolution. The idea the something only 'evolves' if it magically changes into a completely different form simply shows how little the public knows about the theory.

[GSlob]

Why, we have Greek myths for evidence. If goddess Athena[?] could turn Thiresius into Thiresia, that's the Intelligent Design at work for you! Higher order being [a goddess] designing, or rather redesigning, an otherwise irreducibly complex Thiresius, using the tools and processes which are beyond the knowledge and understanding of mortal humans [then and even now - sex change surgeries take longer and are more messy], and even accomplishing the task in real time, almost instantly! Later god Zeus had to perform the reverse transformation, and with the same unearthly efficiency. And - for the fun of it - try to prove that it did not happen! There are statues and myths of gods, accounts of miraculous cures effected by them, and so on - the whole mound of "indirect, but supporting, evidence".

[roadking95th]

So, when does Staph Bacteria become a NEW species, or when has any organism evolved to a new species. That is what has to eventually happen by your arguements.

[RunningWolf]

Has science ever considered that all these adaptations are already built into the staph bacteria lying dormant till needed? If not why not? Because they cant test for it?

There is so much that contemporary science has made conclusions for-- that really it has small clue to do so.

Wolf

[canuck_conservative]

"Scientific analysis of any theory concerning the creation and/or dating of the Earth "is not good." Nor is it good in regards to "occurrences" happening millions and billions of years ago. Carbon 14 dating is seriously flawed as are Potassium-Radon and Uranium-Lead methods."

You haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Long-term radio-dating is accurate and used world-wide.


But let's stay on that point, because it shows the main difference between Evolution and Creationism / ID:

- evolution has lots of evidence to back it up;

- creationism / ID has ZERO - that's right, absolutely nothing - NO evidence to back itself up.

[roadking95th]

Ok, you are getting silly now. The mere fact that, at present, we can not point to a species that evolved from a different species is evidence of ID. That is unless you want to make the argument that billions of years ago one single celled life form developed for each of the 3 million+ species that inhabit our planet. That's quite the occurrence.

Once again, I think both ideas have merit and should be discussed in the classroom.

[drjimmy]

"The judge specifically ordered the school board never to denigrate or disparage the theory of evolution," This is what really gets me....you can't even criticize evolution at all...its absoultely perfect in every way... Pathetic.

The truly pathetic thing is that someone who heads a so-called Christian organization would so blatantly violate one of the 10 Commandments. Contrary to what "pro family" attorney Richard Thompson claims in this article, the judge in the Dover case did not order the school board to "never denigrate or disparage the theory of evolution."

I have the judge's ruling on my computer screen right now, and here's what the judge says: "We will enter an order permanently enjoining Defendants from maintaining the ID Policy in any school within the Dover Area School District, from requiring teachers to denigrate or disparage the scientific theory of evolution, and from requiring teachers to refer to a religious, alternative theory known as ID."

Anyone who is truly the result of intelligent design can see the difference between saying the school board cannot denigrate or disparage evolution and saying the school board cannot require teachers to denigrate or disparage evolution. Richard Thompson defiles the good name of Thomas More with this lie.