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Screening IVF Babies For Defects Poised to Leap to Whole New Level
Life Site News ^ | 01.06.06 | Gudrun Schultz

Posted on 01/06/2006 7:19:14 PM PST by Coleus

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To: little jeremiah
"Yes, and their "solutions" create problems infinitely worse than the ones they futilely [is that a real word?] tried to solve."

I was going to add the above but wanted to keep my response simple. You are exactly right.

My ten years as a probation Officer serve as a personal testament to the above reality. I walked through some of the most devastated neighborhoods in the country on a regular basis. Such places are monuments to the failed welfare state and frequently resemble bombed out areas in war zones. The lives of people in such locals were equally as destroyed. Liberals will offer more of their failed solutions to solve the problems they have exacerbated which will further exacerbate them.

When my parents were young, a person could walk through center city in my hometown at four or five in the morning fearing NOTHING. One wouldn't dream of attempting it in broad daylight today (and for a long time). The blighted areas grow increasingly larger and with no end in sight. It is undeniably heartbreaking.

41 posted on 01/07/2006 9:54:05 PM PST by TAdams8591 (The first amendment does NOT protect vulgar and obscene speech.)
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To: Conservative til I die

Exactly. It's more like "Brave New World."


42 posted on 01/07/2006 9:59:55 PM PST by TAdams8591 (The first amendment does NOT protect vulgar and obscene speech.)
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To: TAdams8591

Good example of lefists "solutions" being worse than the original problem.

Leftist philosophy (if you want to call it that) is not only wrong, it's evil.


43 posted on 01/07/2006 10:02:34 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Conservative til I die

Well, many of the Nazi scientists just came over to the US and got hired by the military and industry. And some over here were supporters of Hitler's ideas - like Maragaret Sanger (Planned Parenthood) and Henry Ford. Wasn't Joe Kennedy keen on Hitler as well?


44 posted on 01/07/2006 10:05:02 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Conservative til I die

Good elucidation.

"Choosing" a better baby is all about ME, nothing about the wellbeing of the rejected babies. Children as commodities.


45 posted on 01/07/2006 10:07:28 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: little jeremiah

The above "wonders" could not have been achieved without the Welfare State, which robs men of the ability to believe in themselves and encourages dependency on cruel and callous goverment entities. Yes, I'd say that's extraordinarily evil.


46 posted on 01/07/2006 10:24:50 PM PST by TAdams8591 (The first amendment does NOT protect vulgar and obscene speech.)
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To: Hodar
"If using the Pill (or other form of birth control) is murder;"

Only birth control pills which are abortifacients are considered killing. Almost no one believes all birth control pills or all forms of birth control fall in the "murderous" category.

47 posted on 01/07/2006 10:30:42 PM PST by TAdams8591 (The first amendment does NOT protect vulgar and obscene speech.)
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To: MHGinTN

I stand corrected, a fertilized egg is an ova.

As for number two. We have free will; but I assert that the creator knows us, knows what we will do; that from HIS point of view, the future is destined.

For example, I assume that you will not kill your children; therefore a frame of reference as to the future with you and your children can be 'known'. And there is also the point of view that in God's plan, we may be nothing more than breeding stock for a future generation in which God may use. Possibly, our day to day meanderings are of little import; for our entire purpose in life may have been simply to influence someone else.

I am not Catholic, I do not recognize ANY human as the sole intrepretor of scripture. The pope is and should be a positive leader; but given the history of the Catholic chuch (recent events included), I think that calling one 'arrogant' for questioning the logic behind various assertions relatively inane. I reserve the right to question everything, whether or not you approve. I question Islam and thier precepts, I question Catholics, Baptists, Wiccans, Buddhists and others as well. One would wonder why you have a rage against someone who merely inquires about your morals. Are you that weak that you cannot bear scruitiny?


48 posted on 01/08/2006 10:47:04 AM PST by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: TAdams8591

Thanks ... that makes sense. I'm looking for a consistent reference point; and this is consistent.

Then, other forms of birth control such as condoms, diaphram or foam barriers are not murder; but are still prohibited as a lesser form of sin, for they interfere with fertilization.

If the goal is to 'go forth and multiply'; and forms of birth control are discouraged, then wouldn't a woman be encouraged to have as many children as she is physically capable of bearing? For I have found no scriptural reference telling us to limit the number of children; with regard to financial capacity, maritial stability or the desire to have children at all.


49 posted on 01/08/2006 10:56:24 AM PST by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Hodar
So, is it immoral because it is beyond what is 'natural'? CPR is not a 'natural' act; is it immoral too? It meets the same type of criteria you have given for IVF. It's artifical, it's a "man playing God" scenario. What about kidney dialysis? Heart Transplants? These are 'unnatural' too. Nowhere in my post did I say IVF or eugenics are wrong because they are artificial. You're trying to set up a strawman. I very clearly stated that the reason a good Catholic is against IVF is because it separates the procreative and unitive act of human sexuality and because it leads to the purposeful destruction of embryos.

Catholics are not against any artificial technology until it butts up against already well-established Catholic moral teaching. You seem to not be able to consider the simple point that a technology can go against another moral belief.
50 posted on 01/08/2006 3:43:01 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: Angry_White_Man_Syndrome
Pray tell, what is the difference if a woman's body rejects a fertilized egg due to birth control, or it is rejected while in a Petri dish?

Nothing they are both a sin. They are both morally wrong.


I will add that while all sin is sin, and will send you to Hell, destroying an embryo is a more heinous crime than contracepting semen. Just IMO.
51 posted on 01/08/2006 3:45:23 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: Hodar

You fumbled out, "I stand corrected, a fertilized egg is an ova." And with that further error you prove you don't know what you're talking about. Sorry, you warrant no further exchange while trying to present yourself as far more knowledgeable than you actually are. [HINT: as soon as fecundation occurs to the ovum (fertilization), the resulting new life is a zygote and no longer an 'egg' (egg being the euphemism you chose or by default used for the female gamete in mammalian reproduction) when discussing mammalian species, at least.]


52 posted on 01/08/2006 7:34:25 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN
Sorry, I thought I was debating an ethical point of view; not taking a medical exam.

So, I lost a point for not being up to snuff on medical terminology. You have made zero points, nada, nothing, zip; and aside from rude comments have contributed nothing at all.

I can learn medical terminology; however I doubt you're capable of learning to debate without resorting to the grade school mode of pointing out errors that have NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. Grow up.
53 posted on 01/08/2006 8:25:51 PM PST by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Hodar

Bwahahahaha ... by the time you actually grow up (if that happens???), I'll be too old to care about your silly self. Aren't you just the cutest thing?... Not knowledgeable in the arena you're spittling about with, but vacuous enough to never catch on. You must be downright blissful!


54 posted on 01/08/2006 8:31:17 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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