Posted on 01/03/2006 8:53:46 AM PST by SirLinksalot
Um...what "security experts" are you hanging around? Sure, there are a lot of charlatans in the field, but that doesn't mean they're all pretenders.
Personally, I put little stock in security wizardry claims. I instead look for papers, utilities, and presentations done by the party in question. Those speak more clearly to their skill set than any FUD-hyped media coverage or overinflated security claims.
<<<< Informatics >>>
Definition : the collection, classification, storage, retrieval, and dissemination of recorded knowledge.
This is nothing but the classical definition of Information Technology ....
Speaking of hot technical skills, I was once a diesel fitter at a pantyhose factory. I'd pull samples off the line, hold them up for inspection, then shout, "Diesel fitter!"
Sadly, the factory closed, and I'm now working as a sundial at a nudist colony...
ROTFLMAO
Spoken like a true developer. Good network guys (not guys with their technical papers from a cracker jack box) are far from a dime a dozen. Sure you can take your MCSE's and your Linux Gurus but I'd put them up against an experienced Big Iron network guy any day.
As for a developer doing real network adsministration don't make me laugh. Most developers couldn't tell you what a TCP/IP stack is to save their life. Ask a developer to subnet a network and they pee their panties. Real men do mainframes, girls type.
Yep, we'd go back and forth on this topic all day I think.
And yes, just as, "spoken as a true developer" I can see the reverse in your reply.
But you go right on and set up the network there big iron. Once you are done, then the real work begins (which is usually what pays the bills year after year and long after the big iron men do their little thing).
21 posted on 01/03/2006 10:56:26 AM MST by Prime Choice
Security will always be big issue until the industry comes to understand
that the greatest charlatan is Bill Gates.
The basic design of all windows allows for penetration.
Vista will be no better!
BSD was designed on a DARPA contract to be unhackable twenty-five years ago.
Long live OSX and Solaris.
Get Root !
"An on the ball designer/engineer can handle the job themselves."
Well said and all to true...
The secuirty field has become a hot field. Like web scripters in the 90's everyone and their dog is getting into the field. The market has become a mess. Take a short example.
For some reason my CTO wanted to implement webmail. He went with exchange because M$ gave it to us for free. We called in a security expert /MCSE to give us the lowdown on the risks associated with implementing OWA. Goes like this
Security expert: Open these two billion (I exaggerate) ports and your webmail can sit on your DMZ.
Myself: No
Security expert: It will only work that way, I'll secure your DMZ for you
Myself: No
Security expert: OK big shot
Myself: Proxy pass through Unix open one port 443 on the firewall.
Security Expert: Refers to Unix box as magic box. Refers to solution as wizardry. Still claims that it should not work.
Security Expert still gets paid wanders off with head up ass.
I admit there are guys out there that are good, very good, but my experience with the majority has been lacking.
Its an attempt to change the classic IT genre abit. Promotes itself as much more flexible than old-school IT.
Amen. That's my "second" skill after producing technically oriented video content. When the video work slacked off, I got thrown onto a tech manual rewrite, and it's keeping me employed.
But that makes no sense. I work in an industry that primarily revolves around storage / archival / uptime critical servers. Developers rarely if ever cross my path. My day to day stuff is trending, predictive, and proactive action on failure. You claim that developers make the money. Last time I checked without us grunts there wouldn't be any money to make.
...and without developers to create apps and users to then use the apps, and support staff to help the users, then why are you setting up anything in the first place?
you are simply the first step in the process - and thus, when your part is done, it is done and not a case of continuing care and feeding (use the cracker jack box boy for new accounts) if everything was done correctly the first time.
I guess you also feel: Why is there a need for a football coach - an on the ball football player can handle the job themselves.
Most projects involve many designers, engineers, QA personal, etc - the project manager is key to getting work done. The last thing you need is 10 designers/engineers handling their own job each in their own special way. Unless it is a one man project - the Project Manager in more important than the designers/engineers. The Project Manager herds the cats.
BTW: I am both a designer/engineer and project manager - they are two different disciplines and both are absolutely necessary.
It's safe to say that optimists and pessimists will come down the issue in their own way.
The back and forth between you and JNL is silly. It reminds me of the secretary who thinks that without them their company would implode. Almost all of the parts of a business are important.
Managers don't like to send code overseas. Overseas coders aren't very happy about changes and managers love to change specs more than they love to eat. The giant sucking sound doesn't really exist in IT as much as everyone thinks.
Security clearance is hot now as well.
See that's what you're missing. Sure on smaller networks you can get away with the Cracker Jack Box. But on large storage networks with mission critical data that becomes a lot harder. You have your Jr Admins doing the basic stuff but when it comes down to failure on a massive scale you need someone with experience.
Storage / Predictive network systems management has become an art unto itself that can't be taught in a classroom. I can't depend on a developer to script some of the stuff I do so naturally I do it myself.
I wish I had a nickel for every time I've seen a "network guy" have to diagnose the problems in a developer's application.
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