Posted on 01/03/2006 6:10:46 AM PST by anotherview
Halutz admits no-go zone has yet to prevent rocket attacks
Seven Kassams fired early Tuesday in response to targeted killing; 16 fugitives arrested overnight in W. Bank.
Jan. 2, 2006 22:08 | Updated Jan. 3, 2006 15:42
Seven Kassams fired at western Negev
By MARGOT DUDKEVITCH AND AP
Palestinians gather around the wreckage of a car after it was hit by an IAF missile in the northern Gaza Strip on Monday.
Photo: AP
Early Tuesday, Palestinians fired seven Kassam rockets at the western Negev in response to the Monday night attack by the IAF in which three Palestinians affiliated with the Islamic Jihad were killed.
The three were traveling in a car when a missile fired from an IAF helicopter hit the vehicle in the Jabaliya refugee camp in northern Gaza.
The IDF identified that rockets were being fired, but have yet to track down the precise locations in which they landed.
The army said that five rockets were fired before dawn from the Beit Hanoun area in the northern Gaza Strip. Two more Kassams were fired several hours later from west of Beit Lahiya, also in northern Gaza. Southern Command officials estimated that all rockets fell in open areas, and so far no reports of anyone wounded or any damage caused as a result have been received.
In response to attacks, IDF artillery units shelled the no-go zone in northern Gaza, where the former settlements Nisanit, Dugit, and Elei Sinai were located.
Meanwhile, in the West Bank, security forces arrested overnight 16 Palestinian fugitives affiliated with the Fatah-Tanzim and Hamas.
In Nablus, five fugitives were arrested; two of them had intended to carry out suicide bomb attacks.
Initial Palestinian media reports on the IAF attack claimed at least two passengers in the car were killed. Israeli security officials identified one of the dead as Said Abu Jidian, a senior Islamic Jihad commander. Further media reports identified the second Palestinian killed in the attack as Akram Gadas.
The reports stated that shortly after 9:30 p.m. a missile fired from an air force helicopter slammed into the car causing it to explode. The army confirmed the attack, and said it was directed at Islamic Jihad terrorists involved in Kassam rocket attacks at Israel.
Monday night's targeted strike occurred just two days after the air force fired a missile at a three member Palestinian terror cell preparing to fire a Kassam rocket at Israel from the restricted "no-go zone" located in the former Elei Sinai settlement in northern Gaza. Two Palestinians were killed in the attack and a third was wounded.
Earlier in the day, security sources revealed that a Palestinian captured with a bomb belt sneaking out of the Gaza Strip last month told interrogators his target was the nuclear reactor in Dimona.
The man, Ramiz Abdel Rahman Jabber Salah of the Jebaliya refugee camp, was a member of the Al Aksa Martyr's Brigade and had been recruited with others who were to stage simultaneous bombings in various sites, such as the Ashdod central bus station.
Salah himself was captured on December 19 near the security fence surrounding the Gaza Strip next to Kibbutz Nirim.
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Well, peace did not come by giving the Arabs more land again. So how about they give Gaza back to the Jews and run the Arabs out this time? Or are we going to persist in playing like the problem is a Jewish/Islamic relationship problem and not an Arab problem?
I recall the first step on the Road Map for the Palestinians was to disarm the terror groups and stop teaching "Jews are dogs" in the Arab school systems.
I recall the last step in the Road map for the Jews were giving up land.
Seems the deal is beyond void. Lets send the Arabs back to Arabia, then there will be peace. Hoping for peace from Islamic promises has proven to be a pipe dream.
Disengagement was never about "peace". Nobody expected peace to magically arrive if we pulled out of Gaza. It was about not tying up huge amounts of IDF resources to protect a few thousand Jewish settlers who should not have been there in the first place in a sea of hostile Arabs. It was about placing the IDF around a defensible border. Qassam rocket fire was always expected.
Expel the Arabs? I have one word for you: Kosovo. Israel would be treated exactly the way Serbia was by the international community. I have no desire to see Israel bombed by NATO, thankyouverymuch. Such ideas are insane and suicidal.
There is a very simple solution to the rocket problem.
The next time there is a rocket attack, the IDF should shell one of the residential sections of Gaza. That should put an end to the attacks. Using civilians for target practice can work both ways.
Just give the Palis Sinai and let Egypt and Israel build a big fence. It has already been proven that you can turn a desert into a country.
If we adopt the immoral tactics of our enemies then we are no better than our enemies. The reason Israel enjoys so much support from America is because we are not like the Arabs and we don't commit indiscriminate murder.
Do not adopt the immoral tactics of your enemies, declare war and defeat them. Stealing other peoples land and giving it to the wolves to save your own ass is imoral. Winning a war brings peace.
Every time you try to buy off these insane killers you get more war, every time you defeat them, you have peace.
Think about it, why repeat this lesson for the eighty eleventh time?
> Why should the Jews not have been in Gaza in the first
> place? It was Israel after all
No, it wasn't. It, like Sinai, was captured land which Israel never claimed nor annexed. For the record, it also wasn't under Jewish control except briefly during the Hasmonean (Maccabbee) period and during Solomon's rule in Biblical times.
> Why are not the Arabs in Jordan which was created from
> Israel to build them a homeland?
Jordan was created from British Palestine, not Israel. Much of Jordan has never been under Jewish control, ever. There were also Arabs living in western Palestine at the time. Some had been there for centuries. What you are advocating is ethnic cleansing and forced explusion.
> Now there are more IDF trying to keep the Paleo-stiens
> in check than before. Have you heard of troop reductions?
The IDF has not reduced troop strength but the thousands of soldiers that were deployed in Gaza are no longer there.
> Are not troops still dying?
Excellent point. Actually, no, they aren't. The deaths of soldiers and settlers in Gaza have stopped. How many Israeli soldiers have Palestinians in Gaza been able to kill since disengagment? How many Jews altogeter? This is exactly the point of disengagement: to save Jewish lives. In that respect disengagement is clearly a success.
> Perhaps the problem is Arabs shooting people, not where
> Jews live ya think?!
No, I don't think. Again, how many Gaza Arabs have shot Jews since disengagement. Come up with an accurate number and get back to me.
> And the surrender
What surrender? There was no surrender. There was a tactical decision, not a surrender. Sorry, you may believe what Hamas tells you but I do not.
> had nothing to do with defensible borders as now the
> border is much less defensible than before.
What do you base this claim on?
> Now if Israel trys to stop a shelling it is an
> "international incident" or an "invasion".
Really? According to whom? Hamas? The PA?
> I have a word for you too, also called Kosovo, as now
> they are occupied, and the Arab Atrocities have not
> stopped
Arab atrocities? Please document these. The Arab population of Kosovo is near nil. Oh, and yes, Kosovo is occupied: by NATO.
> but are now protected by the UN.
The UN can't even protect itself. NATO is calling the shots in Kosovo.
> This is your future too, a goy army holding a gun to
> your head as a Moslem rapes your sister.
Indeed, if we expel the Arabs by force that might be our future. Fortunately Israel has no such plans. Prime Minister Sharon is smarter than Milosovich was.
> Giving land to Arabs was suicidal.
Really? I see Palestinian deaths continuing but Jewish deaths not continuing in Gaza.
> Attacks are sharply up
Actually, according to the IDF they are *down* sharply.
> daily shelling of Israel has increased
The Qassam rocket attacks from Gaza were every bit as intense before disengagement.
> and suicide bombing is back.
Did it ever stop? Tell me, how many suicide bombers have come from Gaza since disengagement? The number is zero, in case you've lost count.
> So are you going to claim that was all part of the plan,
> that Sharon wanted more artillery attacks, more dead
> kinsmen and there just was not enough suicide bombings
> to go around?!
There are, again according to the IDF, fewer suicide bombings. The death toll is up among Palestinians, not Jews. You really need to get your facts straight.
> You gave away your second largest industry
Really? Perhaps all the lovely locally grown produce in the market is just a figment of my imagination.
> and some of your most productive farmland
Actually, Gaza was and is desert. What made it productive was irrigation and hothouses. It is not, by itself, any more productive than any part of southern Israel.
> to create an Allah Allah incoming free fire zone.
Really? Oh yes, the IAF is using northern Gaza as a free fire zone and is attacking Islamic terrorists. Thank you for the reminder.
> Billions of dollars worth of land, homes and farms
Billions? Where do you get your number from? The agriculture, at it's peak, was worth $65-70 million per year. Roughly 2,000 homes and a few miles worth of desert are worth billions? You really need to take Economics 101.
> for zip nada?
No. To save Jewish lives.
> Pretending that this was a positive move is insane in the
> face of what is happening right now.
It was a positive move. No pretending is necessary. Nothing that is happening now was unexpected.
> But the left marches on, reality be damned...
Actually, if one believes the polls, the hard left is still voting Labour and Meretz. It is the broad center of Israel's populace that supports the Prime Minister.
> Because they "have all the answers"
Really? It reads like you think you have all the answers. Again, disengagement was not a product of the left. We have a moderate, center-right Prime Minister and government. Of course, to extremists the center seems to be way off to the left.
> despite the votes to the contrary.
What votes to the contrary? Polls show the Prime Minister winning the next election in a landslide. People with views like yours may control 30 seats in the next Knesset, fewer than before disengagement. Disengagement was voted *for* by the Knesset and the Cabinet. The public supported it by a 60-40 margin.
> Israel is what happens when leftists get control of the
> Judiciary
Disengagement was something started by the Prime Minister and approved by the Cabinet (executive branch) and approved for in a vote of the Knesset (legislative branch). All the judiciary did was refuse to overrule our parliament and executive. They refused to engage in what Americans call "judicial activism". It seems you are really confused by the different branches of government. Actually, based on your posts you seem to be just plain confused.
You did nothing to refute my claim that an attempt to forcibly expel millions of Arabs from their homes would yield international intervention against Israel. To me such an attempt would truly be suicidal.
Look, since you want to expel non-Jews from Israel why don't you set a good example? Flights leave Ben Gurion Airport daily. We have enough wingnuts of our own.
Disengagement was never about "peace". Nobody expected peace to magically arrive if we pulled out of Gaza. It was about not tying up huge amounts of IDF resources to protect a few thousand Jewish settlers who should not have been there in the first place in a sea of hostile Arabs. It was about placing the IDF around a defensible border. Qassam rocket fire was always expected.Well said, although I believe the disengagement plan is mostly about pulling out of Gaza to allow the divisions between the various Arab gangs to emerge and an uncivil war to ensue, partly to give the Arab apologists nowhere to hide, and partly to conserve forces for the big fight yet to come. Also, the withdrawal from Gaza will convince more Israelis that withdrawal from the so-called West Bank is a ninny idea.
Expel the Arabs? I have one word for you: Kosovo. Israel would be treated exactly the way Serbia was by the international community. I have no desire to see Israel bombed by NATO, thankyouverymuch. Such ideas are insane and suicidal.Ethnic cleansing happened in many countries (including Jordan, including the "West Bank"), and NATO did nothing.
If we adopt the immoral tactics of our enemies then we are no better than our enemies. The reason Israel enjoys so much support from America is because we are not like the Arabs and we don't commit indiscriminate murder.Israel doesn't get any credit from its opponents (that includes every Moslem state, and the world's dictatorships, or even the haters of Jews in the US and EU and elsewhere), so I'm not entirely sold on that argument. I'm also not sold on it because self-defense by Israel is already equated with the terrorism. It's better to do whatever it takes to resolve the situation, and get it over with.
And still, nobody learns anything.
Jordan was created for a Palestinian Homeland from the land mandated for Israel by the British, after the Muslims were given Syria for a homeland and complained. Now Gaza has become the third or should I say turd land for peace deal. I count the Leftist surrender of Abraham's resting place as the fourth, proving some people could not get a clue if you glued it to their nose.
As for the thousands of troops, yep, they are now being bombed outside of Gaza, showing that nothing was accomplished but a superior position for the terrorists to attack from. Great move...
-- Are not troops still dying?
Excellent point. Actually, no, they aren't. The deaths of soldiers and settlers in Gaza have stopped. How many Israeli soldiers have Palestinians in Gaza been able to kill since disengagement?
Three just died from a rocket attack from Gaza. How many died in the month before the surrender? Zero... Showing that the Surrender was a total failure.
By your own standard here, once Israel is completely destroyed and no Jews are left alive in the Middle East, it will be a victory, because no Jews are dying in Jerusalem anymore.
--the border is much less defensible than before.
What do you base this claim on?
History, the great teacher. Notice that Gaza has been the invasion route of the Arabs into Israel on all the other wars, and since the Sinai has been returned for Peace, and Gaza has been returned for peace, Egypt is practicing invasion maneuvers with Tanks in the Sinai and the Syria's Hamas is shelling Israel from Gaza. After Israel gives up its mountains to the Arab League and is only 9 miles wide, as is, if you are honest the next step Sharon is ramping up for, Israel will be pre invaded, with the troops in place to destroy it once and for all, even before the war starts up again.
If instead Israel had held on to the land captured, it would have some borders in depth, but noooo... Some bright boy decided that surrender is what victorious army's do. Thereby changing how things have been done for all history. That is, at least for all known history. It is possible some other brainless leftist evolutionary branch of human history tried it, but they are no longer in history, as the predictable happened and they no longer exist.
But don't just take my word for it, how about this quote today from a Kenneset member "MK Ehud Yatom (Likud) asked the chief of staff, “Why not send tanks into northern Gaza as a warning (to the Qassam launchers). There are no Palestinian civilians there, so no one would be able to say that we are harming civilians. They are firing from there, so what are we waiting for. “It was a mistake to leave the northern Gaza settlements Dugit, Ele Sinai and Nisanit, which served as a territorial continuation of Ashkelon” Yatom added. “By uprooting these settlements we abandoned the factories in Ashkelon’s industrial area.”
The factory's are the primary oil refinery's, chemical plants and the largest power plant in Israel. Its called strategy vs politics.
How many Gaza Arabs have shot Jews? Oh blood only counts with semantics here. During the last "truce" over 2000 terrorist attacks were tried. Yeah this is working great. that is a thousand a month. I am getting the impression that you do not care how many Jews die, as long as it is not you.
Three, shot with a Missile fired from the ruins of a Jewish town, one at the Border crossing with a suicide bomb, one man shot up in his car, but that was a west bank Jew and his blood does not count. Till a few months from now when the surrender happens there. Then we can count his death as a victory for Sharon. Or is that a defeat, I forget how this works.
All I know, is Thousands of the most productive Jews were run out of their homes by Leftist Jewish Nazis, and have been forced to still pay for their mortgages instead of the Government who took their houses paying for the goods they took. And that was because of their race and creed. That is called ethnic cleansing and you are voting for it. Now Genocide is the creed of the people you are voting for, and you accuse me of ethnic cleansing because I want International Visa laws to be enforced?!
That is called Hypocrisy. You sling mud because you are wearing it my friend. Violence and bombings have increased, Cities that never were bombed before are getting bombed and many Jews are homeless, thrown out of their homeland by Israeli politicians who seem to have lost the money removed from the economy to pay for the land they stole.
Actually, according to the IDF they are *down* sharply.
Really? Let me quote the GSS "The General Security Services (GSS) has released its 2005 year-end report, which reveals a dramatic increase in weapons brought into Gaza by Arab terrorists since Israel's evacuation of the region. According to the report, released Monday, there has been a 900% increase in the number of anti-tank missile launchers Arab terrorists have brought into Gaza from Egypt since Israel's unilateral withdrawal in August as compared with the preceding seven months. Approximately 350 anti-tank missiles were brought across the border in the same post-Disengagement period, representing a 600% increase since the Palestinian Authority took over Gaza. "
This is a decrease?
Statistics show that terrorism actually has increased and has not decreased. Suicide bombers struck six times in 2005, twice before the expulsion of Jewish residents from the Gaza and northern Samarian regions and four times afterwards.
In February, a suicide bomber killed five Israelis in an attack on the The Stage nightclub in Tel Aviv, shortly after the "calm" was announced at the Sharm el-Sheikh summit. In July, a suicide bomber killed five Israelis and injured 30 others at a Netanya mall, the first of two attacks there.
On August 28, shortly after the expulsion, a terrorist blew himself up and wounded 20 people in an attack at the Be'er Sheva bus station. In December, suicide bombers struck twice, once at the Netanya mall where five were killed, and again on Thursday when an IDF officer and two Arab bystanders were murdered.
The number of rockets and mortar shells on Israeli targets has sharply increased since the expulsion, with 130 attacks from January through July, the eve of the expulsion, and 179 since then.
It seems the hard raw data of reality is in sharp contrast with your statements. Along with your use of killed in Gaza semantics I think you are being duplicitous with me. How about we just say IN ISRAEL? Face it, attacks are up, shelling is up, the cities being bombed are up, suiciding bombing is up, Hamas is much stronger, Arms smuggling is up. There is NOT ONE INDICATION that the pullout is anything but a diplomatic, security disaster and bloodbath.
Face it, you have to strain pretty hard to pretend that the surrender of Gaza is a positive thing. I can just imagine the Generals reporting to Hitler the great victory because Germans are no longer being killed in France.
And to ignore the loss of a hundred million dollar a year export industry that supplied 20% of the winter produce of Europe and say the lovely locally grown produce is a figment of your imagination is clearly an attempt to deceive. Show me the export industry that magically sprung up to replace that industry. Show me da MONEY!
Disengagement was something started by the Prime Minister and approved by the Cabinet (executive branch) and approved for in a vote of the Knesset (legislative branch).
You seem to have forgotten that the first vote of the party went against Sharon, so he fired the dissenters, and voted again, and lost again, so he fired the dissenters and voted again and won. That is democracy? Then he played the same dictatorial politics with the Kennesset till he won and when people complained that he was violating his madate he was elected on, his party platform, and replacing his party control of the Parliament with the opposing party's paid for votes in a clear violation of the vote of the people, the cabinet and the kenneset, the Judiciary refused to stop this mockery of democracy.
You know, if you have such a lack of grasp of reality, history and a selective short term memory I guess there is no talking to you. You are clinically insane in my book. In the end, as nuclear mushroom clouds sprout all around and in Israel, tell me again how this path is so superior. Tell me again how surrendering to genocide and even playing Capo for the Sand-Nazi's is so much better than making illegal immigrants go home. Tell me again how pretending that the world really will love jews if they will only commit suicide was wise.
I will sit silently and stare with the same expression I am staring at you now. Total shock at your lack of understanding.
Israel lost the first skirmish of the Oslo war, and is fixing to loose the second skirmish. When Iran gets the bomb, this whole charade will be over in a flash, I hope you live to see it.
You will remember me then perhaps... To quote from my favorite book: Thinking themselves wise, they became as fools, and worshiped Creation rather than the Creator...
The US is the primary financier, the Road Map is the US plan and Arafat's government was put in place by the United States. My guess is that Israel had better stand up for itself soon, because there is nobody standing up FOR it.
Face it, the word "militant" is like dressing a pig in a wedding gown and putting on lipstick. Just like the word "Palestinian" is another obscenity used for an Arab League political ploy to destroy the Jews.
That Rabbi just married a woman to a fish, I guess Jews are too naive to understand the World's Bride for you is a pig. I hate to tell you this, but the wedding is a scam. Quit trying to go to bed with the world and stand up for who you are, JUDAH.
NO APOLOGYS!
What a repulsive person you are.
Israel has so many friends in the World that you would chase out a Christian who is immune to the insanity currently sweeping you and other Israelis and who has shared the danger of the last few years supporting and living in Israel.
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