Posted on 01/01/2006 10:08:49 AM PST by SpikeMike
A.Pole I told about modern time not mediaval. TODAY would Ukraine behaivior d be accepted by Europe as civilised?
Russians learned it hard way under Yeltsin. They did what they were asked to do and they paid with misery and millions of premature deaths.
It was Russia who initiated the split of USSR and gave freedom everyone in 1991.
...Russia brought freedom ...
If there was Nobel Prize for the most idiotic quotes, you'd be a second to none to win it. ==
It happened just 15(!) year ago. Not 200 years ago. Is it diffucult to use internet and read about events in 1991?
Or you just lazy in mind and prefer comdemn Russia for each moment but not to do some education for yourself?
Lithuania, Latvia Estonia - 1990!!! Ukraine - 1990!!!==
Oh god:). Go learn something.
Russia has a right to charge market rates, or even above-market rates if they choose to. But they have no right to break a contract. By doing so, they prove they cannot be trusted.
Ukraine is probably siphoning off some or most of the remaining natural gas headed west across their country. I don't know if that is legal or illegal. They have no right to steal gas belonging to Poland, but on the other hand they have a right to take the gas that Russia contracted to supply them. They also have a certain right to do what they must to keep their citizens from freezing in a Russian-caused emergency.
If Russia wants more for their gas, then they should wait a few years until their contract expires. That would allow Ukraine to find alternate sources if they don't want to pay.
What Russia is doing at present, however, is breaking a legal contract and using extortion to exert political pressure. In the long run, this kind of contract-breaking will not benefit Russia or the Russian people.
Europe, of course, will do nothing but talk. That is all they are capable of. But this, and the recent oil confiscations, will damage Russia's ability to business with other countries in every economic area, not just with natural gas.
Once more it sends the signal that Russia, which has repeatedly broken contracts and confiscated industries in the past, still cannot be trusted to keep a contract.
Opium war was in XIX and in XX century a VERY civilized country in the middle of Europe did very nasty things. There are civilized, rich and sophisticated people who are cruel and mean and simple/poor/primitive people who are gentle and kind.
Civilization does not equal goodness or honesty.
Sounds logical to me.
By those hotshot Harvard advisors and crooks such as J Sacks?
and they paid with misery and millions of premature deaths.
Thank you for that cogent post.
Ukraine will take own gas, Poland, Czech Republic and Slovakia too and who will stay without gas :) Good cause then Western Europeans maybe will at last do something with this sick situation.
If Russia wants more for their gas, then they should wait a few years until their contract expires. That would allow Ukraine to find alternate sources if they don't want to pay. ===
The contract betwen Russia and Ukraine tells that prices and volumes of delivery has to be resubmitted by mutual protocols each year.
Tat is the source of today conflict. Ukraine wants subsidised prices of previous year. Russia wants the medium europian price. SO the protocol on 2006 is not signed now.
Ukraine garanteed that transit will be safe but broke her word today when started to steal transit gas.
Russia's move will be stop of transit completely. Until the safety of transit will be garanteed.
Ukraine will take own gas, Poland, Czech Republic and Slovakia too and who will stay without gas :) ==
If ukranian stealing continue one more day that everyone since Russia will stop delivery.
Even earlier did they start to fight against you for freedom! The United States of America never recognized the captivity of the Baltic States. ==
Not aganuist me but against Soviet Union. The state which Latvian Rifle divisions helped to established in first place.
Cool :)
Cool :)==
I agree:). We have to open and clean this fester completely.
At least I think that if Europe needs russian gas then help to ensure its safe transit. If not then better to know it just now.
From what I hear, they were freed from the contract because of specific clauses. Did you check the Russians side of the story?
What you suggest is certainly possible. It would take a team of lawyers to go over the fine print on the contracts.
I can't do that, and regretably, the press no longer does its job investigating this kind of story. The press should investigate, get copies of the contracts, consult their lawyers. But they probably won't bother to check who is telling the truth.
Yes, and by pressure from Western governments. They were told that if they want trade and economical cooperation they have to follow "free" market privatization in process of which few speculators and organized crime too control of the large part of national assets.
When the Russian Parliament resisted this scheme, western leaders and media demanded and praised massacre of Parliament in 1993 as the triumph of free market democracy.
Strangely enough it was the beginning of Chechen rebellion - the leader of Russian Duma was Chechen and before coming of Wahabi Islamists, Chechens has seen themselves as defender of democracy.
OK, if that is true, then it puts Russia in a better light. But it looks as if Ukraine has tried to make a fairly reasonable counter offer. And it remains that Russia is cutting off their fuel supply in the dead of winter.
Russia would still look better if they agreed to accept Ukraine's offer for a limited period, and gave them next summer to come up with the market price or find another source of fuel.
Could someone post a map or link of this area.
Thanks
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.