How the Anti-Evolution Debate Has Evolved

History News Network ^ | 20 December 2005 | Charles A. Israel

[King Prout]

WELL... THIS THREAD WENT TO HELL IN A handbasket in a hurry, didn't it?

[Ichneumon]

The Martians All Created Us theory could work if we were only talking about who or what created/formed us. It fails to explain the existance of other created things we see, like the universe.

Please present your evidence which supports the conclusion that the Universe is a "created thing". We'll wait.

[phantomworker]

It's still early yet. LOL!

[Ichneumon]

As soon as you take such evidence that DOES point to a composer and claim that must be the answer, then you are violating the premise from the onset that no composer be used to explain the origin of the piece.

There is no such premise in science, or evolutionary biology, and thus your attempted analogy falls flat on its uninformed face.

Please stop misrepresenting the nature of the "ID controversy". At the very least, read all of the Kitzmiller decision for a good primer on the topic, to bring you up to speed on the background.

Hint: Methodological naturalism is not the same as philosophical naturalism.

[Ichneumon]

[I don't have a problem with that-the problem is when creationists try to push their views as legitimate science.]

You mean those luddites like Gregor Mendel and Georges Lemaitre?

Clue for those lacking a clue: Neither were pushing unsupported creationist views as science, they were doing actual science, based on actual evidence the actual scientific method. The "IDers" are not.

[oneofmany]

I don't have any dog in this fight and don't know much about the arguments on either side, but why would any ID proponent object to the "Martians Created Us" argument. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't ID supposed to leave the question of what the intelligence is open?

[PatrickHenry]

Two more laws of creationism:
When a Christian does good science, that proves creationism.
But when Aristotle, Archimedes, Eratosthenes, etc. do good science, that doesn't rebound to the credit of the Olympian gods.

[longshadow]

AS long as we have a thread about the Dover Decision, please allow me to be impertinent and post something from the actual decision:

On cross-examination, Professor Behe admitted that: "There are no peer reviewed articles by anyone advocating for intelligent design supported by pertinent experiments or calculations which provide detailed rigorous accounts of how intelligent design of any biological system occurred." (22:22-23 (Behe)).

[emphasis added]

ID doesn't even get out of the starting gate as a scientific theory; it is unfalsifiable in the general sense, and has no body of peer-reviewed science supporting it with positive evidence.

[PatrickHenry]

O horrible man! I pity you. You will eventually learn the truth, but it will be too late. I'll be laughing!
</creationism mode>

[RaceBannon]

you're right, the evolutionists need to give it up.

they have been proven wrong each time they open their mouth.

[LiteKeeper]

YEC INTREP - [YAWN] - Here we go again. Nobody convinces anybody...some throw stones; others call names. And in the end we're right where we started.

[M203M4]

Of course. There are still monkeys!! I think they are still mammals too (if evolution was true, why don't they have jet engines and stealth technology?). Pfft, crazy evolutionary Darwinists (he married his cousin!) refuse to bow down to the temple of Beheism..err I mean "truth".

[zeeba neighba]

The throwing of the stones is what they like and why they post these things.

[RaceBannon]

Um, Behe didn't invent intelligent design...God did.

[lemura]

Here we go again.

I agreee; since the cre-evo debates are so boring, perhaps we can begin a discussion concerning much more interesting issues: (1) how many universes are there (ie are they created every moment or at longer intervals)?; and (2) how many times has our own universe collapsed and expanded?

This has relevance to evolution, because it raises the issue of whether or not atomic particles, by natural law, form simple RNA/DNA structures that eventually enable the formation of intelligent beings.

If the development of RNA/DNA is as natural as the creation of hydrogen, then how many civilisations have existed in our own and other universes?

[b_sharp]

I haven't looked at the troll's toolkit in a while; it's becoming very impressive.

[zeeba neighba]

The only evolution that has occurred is that now they refer to Christians as trolls.

[b_sharp]

"Hint: Methodological naturalism is not the same as philosophical naturalism.

And how long did it take us to get the FR IDleaders to admit that?

[b_sharp]

What, you don't like our ballet?

[b_sharp]

"Um, Behe didn't invent intelligent design...God did.

I think it was the aliens traveling through space in the giant potato.