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To: Dan(9698)
You have misused too many terms (Religeonists of Darwin, proven science, speculations) so...lets define some terms (from a google search):

Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses"; "true in fact and theory"

Hypothesis: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices"

Guess: an opinion or estimate based on incomplete evidence, or on little or no information

Law: a generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics"

Assumption: premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play"

Model: a simplified framework designed to illuminate complex processes; a hypothetical description of a complex entity or process; a physical or mathematical representation of a process that can be used to predict some aspect of the process

Speculation: a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence)

Observation: any information collected with the senses

Data: factual information, especially information organized for analysis or used to reason or make decisions

Fact: when an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact

Belief: any cognitive content (perception) held as true; religious faith

Religion: (theistic): "1 the belief in a superhuman controlling power, esp. in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and worship. 2 the expression of this in worship. 3 a particular system of faith and worship." Non-Theistic definition: "The word religion has many definitions, all of which can embrace sacred lore and wisdom and knowledge of God or gods, souls and spirits. Religion deals with the spirit in relation to itself, the universe and other life. Essentially, religion is belief in spiritual beings. As it relates to the world, religion is a system of beliefs and practices by means of which a group of people struggles with the ultimate problems of human life."

Faith: the belief in something for which there is no evidence or logical proof

Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof

Impression: a vague idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying"

Based on these, evolution is a theory. CS and ID are beliefs.

But wait, there's more!

From an NSF abstract:

As with all scientific knowledge, a theory can be refined or even replaced by an alternative theory in light of new and compelling evidence. The geocentric theory that the sun revolves around the earth was replaced by the heliocentric theory of the earth's rotation on its axis and revolution around the sun. However, ideas are not referred to as "theories" in science unless they are supported by bodies of evidence that make their subsequent abandonment very unlikely. When a theory is supported by as much evidence as evolution, it is held with a very high degree of confidence. ...

Those who oppose the teaching of evolution often say that evolution should be taught as a "theory, not as a fact." This statement confuses the common use of these words with the scientific use. In science, theories do not turn into facts through the accumulation of evidence. Rather, theories are the end points of science. They are understandings that develop from extensive observation, experimentation, and creative reflection. They incorporate a large body of scientific facts, laws, tested hypotheses, and logical inferences. In this sense, evolution is one of the strongest and most useful scientific theories we have.

Modified from RadioAstronomers's post #27 on another thread.


200 posted on 12/28/2005 6:34:11 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Coyoteman

Based on those definitions, evolution is not a theory; it is a model.


319 posted on 12/28/2005 9:04:31 PM PST by connectthedots
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To: Coyoteman
The problem here is you are dealing with too many laypeople who do not realize that many words in the vernacular, even when dealing roughly with the same subject, have completely different specialized meanings when used by scientists...

OTOH, C.S. Lewis reported the same thing when trying to introduce theology to lay people, about the time of his Broadcast Talks.

Cheers!

958 posted on 12/30/2005 9:55:54 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Coyoteman
I really liked your post and the explanations therein.

Well done!

Both you and Radio Astronomer for making sense of the arguments on these Crevo threads that I have been reading occasionally since joining this forum.

I think I will copy and save it! It is the first time I have seen it all in on post, so clearly stated.
970 posted on 12/30/2005 10:32:38 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: Coyoteman
so...lets define some terms (from a google search):
Faith: the belief in something for which there is no evidence or logical proof

A google search? Wow. Was this from a high school paper? I could spend precious seconds explaining just how juvenile a definition of faith this is, but the real issue is that you can't even be bothered to put in the effort to come up with a definition of terms that are beyond the parody level.

978 posted on 12/30/2005 11:03:20 PM PST by jbloedow
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