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Why Does the Muslim World Lag in Science? [How hot is hell and what are jinns made of?]
Middle East Forum ^ | June 1996 | Aaron Segal

Posted on 12/28/2005 12:46:28 PM PST by SJackson

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To: yankeedame
Well, you assume that private property is still sacrosanct here in the US. It isn't anymore

The SCOTUS has just declared that any real property in the US is subject to confiscation on the whims of your local politicos. How long will it be until intellectual property is subjected to the same standard?

After all, if a locality can realize more tax revenue by selling your home to some private developers, how much revenue will they be able to realize if they appropriate a patent or a copyright?

L

81 posted on 12/29/2005 12:34:11 AM PST by Lurker (You don't let a pack of wolves into the house just because they're related to the family dog.)
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To: dixiechick2000; PhilDragoo; potlatch; ntnychik; MeekOneGOP; Lady Jag; Zacs Mom; Liz; Czar; Boazo; ..


Many of the Muslims marry their first cousins Charlie!

Folks in the South learned not to do that a looooong time ago.....


82 posted on 12/29/2005 12:56:15 AM PST by devolve (<-- (-in a manner reminiscent of Senator Gasbag F. Kohnman-)
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To: Tommy-the-pissed-off-Brit

Thanks!


83 posted on 12/29/2005 3:26:44 AM PST by Alberta's Child (Said the night wind to the little lamb . . . "Do you see what I see?")
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To: SJackson

Interesting arguments for a plethora of reasons Islam isn't to blame for the Muslim world's woeful show in science -- and everything else. But it boils down to the fact that Islam is rammed down the throats of the Muslim world 24/7. That's the common factor. Muslims are terrified of scientific inquiry (what if the Koran says it's bad?) Off with your head!


84 posted on 12/29/2005 3:40:47 AM PST by hershey
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To: SJackson
The scientific endeavors of fanatic islamites are focused on the many uses of trinitrotoluene.
85 posted on 12/29/2005 3:41:06 AM PST by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: manwiththehands
Yepper. My thought exactly as I read the authors "bullet points" about demographics, education, research

Demographics -- kill until there are no more infidels, then we kill each other!

education -- indoctrinate the children to kill untill there are no more infidels, then to kill each other!

research -- to kill the infidels...

I'd guess they'd kill until the last man standing had to fall on his sword for lack of anyone to kill.

Now that's a "culture".

86 posted on 12/29/2005 5:24:53 AM PST by banjo joe (Work the angles. Show all work.)
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To: TCats
One reason I found when working in Muslim centric countries was the incessant interruptions for prayers.

Mere ritualism, as opposed to worship or a relationship with a suprememe being.

87 posted on 12/29/2005 5:38:20 AM PST by banjo joe (Work the angles. Show all work.)
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To: Onelifetogive
Oh, except when it comes to ID. Then we just say "God did it" and leave it at that. When we all know that it just happened by itself and we must "leave it at that."

Well said!

The deeper I get into my advanced Anatomy and Physiology classes, the more awed I become about the miracle of life. Most of my profs are not hesitant to express that view, either.

88 posted on 12/29/2005 5:52:57 AM PST by banjo joe (Work the angles. Show all work.)
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To: yankeedame
The point you raise is a very good one, but I'm not sure exactly how important the concept of "private property" has been in the Western dominance of science and technology. I would say it has absolutely been a critical component of the overall economic development of Western nations, and the establishment of social/government structures to support this development. It has also been a critical factor in many scientific discoveries of, say, the last 150-200 years -- when scientific applications have served as the basis for many successful commercial ventures (just look at the entire pharmaceutical industry, for example).

Before that, however, I don't really get the sense that "science" had any real connection to private property at all. For a period of about 300 years starting in the late 15th century, I think science was studied as a "pure" subject simply for the sake of satisfying someone's thirst for knowledge -- not for the sake of monetary gain. People like Galileo or Sir Isaac Newton had no patents or copyrights that allowed them to derive financial benefits from their discoveries. In fact, it was generally quite the opposite . . . science was such a "pure" subject matter and presented such poor prosoects for financial gain that the pursuit of scientific research required one to either secure the backing of wealthy benefactors for financial support, or work with a religious or academic institution whose primary function was the pursuit of abstract knowledge.

Perhaps there is a clear way to define exactly which forms of science required private property rights and certain government/civic systems to thrive. I'd say that advances in pure sciences required nothing more than the right minds and the proper foundation of knowledge, while advances in applied sciences usually required some tangible financial gain on the part of the person or institution doing the research.

What's most interesting about this second point is that our modern Western social/government systems have also provided the basis for a number of things that are gradually driving the collapse of science, including the use of blatantly incorrect applications of "science" to" 1) reap enormous financial gains and 2) promote political agendas.

89 posted on 12/29/2005 6:06:35 AM PST by Alberta's Child (Said the night wind to the little lamb . . . "Do you see what I see?")
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To: SauronOfMordor

yes but the uninformed think they can pick and choose what to do and still be good musi's. They are the appeasers trying to play nice untill they are killed by the islamofacists or converted through fear.


90 posted on 12/29/2005 10:14:59 AM PST by bdfromlv (Leavenworth hard time)
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To: Alberta's Child
Thank you for your response, and I find I agree with you on many things. While I wouldn't go to court on this, I believe it was the 16th century Englishman Sir Francis Bacon,and first well-known armature scientist, who coined the word "science" deriving it from the Latin word for knowledge. His was essentially a pure science and, as you mentioned, was only possible by his inherited,independent wealth.

For while applied science depends on security of private property, pure science, again, as you pointed out, relies on "idle" wealth -- either your own [the scientist] or someone else's [outside investor]. That, in turn, means that there must be capital over and above what is required for living. IOW, only a prosperous society can afford the "luxury" of pure science.... And that leaves the Islamic world o-u-t, out.

Certain people in the Islamic world have unimaginable wealth, but Islamic society,as a whole, is becalmed in the stagnate waters of poverty. And as wealth sleeps uneasily on a bed of poverty, money that (theoretically) might go into funding pure science is, instead, spent on bread and circuses.

In closing, to address the puzzlement over the concept of "private property" has been in the Western dominance of science and technology bare in mind that Applied Science, unlike her more ethereal sister Pure Science, is driven by industry and its money which, in turn, is made secure by legal protection of private property.

91 posted on 12/29/2005 2:10:48 PM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: Alberta's Child

"3) the Persian numerical system, which was left behind when the Moors were chased out of Europe in the late 1400s. "

Actually that would be the INDIAN numerical system. ;)
http://members.tripod.com/~INDIA_RESOURCE/mathematics.htm


92 posted on 12/29/2005 4:26:00 PM PST by apro
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To: Alberta's Child
...3) the Persian numerical system, which was left behind when the Moors were chased out of Europe in the late 1400s...

The Hindu-Arabic number system was introduced to Europe in 1202 in Leonardo of Pisa (aka Fibonacci)'s "Liber Abaci". It was developed in India, the Muslims got it from them.

93 posted on 12/30/2005 12:51:19 AM PST by Virginia-American
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To: America's Resolve

"Such is the reason that Saudi Arabia alone has a dozen or so "Universities", but has hundreds of "Islamic Schools".

Hundreds? Don't we wish they were that few. More like THOUSANDS. King Fahd alone, a major source of which Muslim radicalism has grown in these Saudi-financed religious centers through out the world, has erected over 200 Islamic center and 1,500 mosques through out Europe, the Americas, Asia and Africa.


94 posted on 12/30/2005 1:48:14 PM PST by apro
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To: SJackson
Science failed to become a self-sustaining enterprise in the Mohammedan world because of its erroneous view of God's freedom. An intelligible natural order was anathema to Mohammedan theologians who believed that such a natural limited God's freedom. The Mohammedan God is free to do good or evil. In contrast, Christian theologians believed that the natural order was the result of the activity of God, who is perfect intelligibility and goodness.

Moreover, while Mohammedan and Jewish theologians of the Middle Ages often lapsed into pantheism, the doctrine of the Incarnation (and the dogma of creation from nothing) made the adoption of pantheism logically impossible for Christians. Time must be linear. The natural order must be rational and intelligible.

95 posted on 12/30/2005 2:03:47 PM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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