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INTELLIGENT DESIGN: Teaching children the truth [Cal Thomas gets it]
Miami Herald ^
| 28 December 2005
| CAL THOMAS
Posted on 12/28/2005 3:49:52 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: TN4Bush
My husband and I also pay high taxes for a school system we do not benefit from, because we did not have children at all. However, we don't complain about it because it is beneficial to society to educate its future citizens. We don't expect a refund simply because we did not reproduce, yet you want one because you just don't want to use the public schools.
To: Physicist
reinstituting what was evil No matter what you think about ID or creationism, it certainly doesn't constitute any form of "evil". You've got a complex. Denying deity to science isn't evil, unless science is to be considered a religion. Perhaps this is true for you.
To: linda_22003
WHy do you put up with them confiscating your money and spraying it all over the place for ANYTHING beyond Constitutional limits? The peoblem isn't just education and schools- it's everywhere the government has exceeded it's role.
You're swallowing the socialist line quite nicely. You would have made a good Democrat in the 60s with that kind of thinking. I'm not trying to be obnoxious, but step back and look at what you are accepting.
23
posted on
12/28/2005 5:13:46 AM PST
by
ovrtaxt
(I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
To: hawkaw
Now this creationism etc. can be taught in religious courses since they are belief based.Don't make me say it.
24
posted on
12/28/2005 5:14:49 AM PST
by
ovrtaxt
(I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
To: SampleMan
No matter what you think about ID or creationism, it certainly doesn't constitute any form of "evil". It corrupts Christians and leads them to lie.
25
posted on
12/28/2005 5:15:40 AM PST
by
Oztrich Boy
(so natural to mankind is intolerance in whatever they really care about - J S Mill)
To: PatrickHenry
I'm about to ramble, but I hope these thoughts have some coherence:
As I say often in these matters, we need to keep in mind the difference between the policy argument (whether teaching, or mentioning, ID is a "good idea") and the legal argument (whether it is prohibited by the Constitution. The two answers are not necessarily identical.
Two topics I try not to get entangled in on FR (coward that I am): evolution/creation and the Civil War/War Between the States. But I will say that it appears to me that the principled exercise of "the scientific method" would limit the broad conclusions ascribed to each theory, to varying degrees. As I understand it, evolution says that living things adapt to their environment - true enough. Various disease organisms develop resistance to antibiotics, etc. My understanding (which could be dead wrong, my last science course was almost 30 years ago!) is that evidence for evolution as the sole avenue for the presence of all species past and present is much weaker and depends on inferences, which may indeed be logical based on the present fossil record. But evolution seems to be used as political shorthand by some for the proposition that "we have proved that God did NOT create the universe. life, etc. and in fact there is no God." Again, that conclusion seems a "reach" to me as well, given the limitations of the evidence and the "rules" governing the scientific method. This is flame-bait I know, but I think evolution and creation answer different questions and are not inconsistent. Just my opinion.
I certainly think the ideal of free public education is a good one, and has in the past done our country a lot of good. But perhaps like unions, etc. the original ills the public schools were designed to address are not replaced by the abuses resulting from the public school system itself. To a large degree the system is broken - lacking discipline, a "warehousing" mentality, political indoctrination, etc. I know many teachers work hard, and I'm not putting the majority of the blame on them. I'm sure many of them are frustrated too. I know vouchers have of course been proposed as a solution. My biggest fear, though, is that with an influx of students and the inevitable "strings" that would come with government (i.e., taxpayers') money the character of private schools would change. God bless those who have the time and inclination to home school.
26
posted on
12/28/2005 5:29:22 AM PST
by
cvq3842
To: KeyWest
> The problem is not to shift children from public to private or home school them. The problem is money and a voice in spending that money.
There have been several attempts for IDers to get onto the school board around here. They have failed spectacularly. I was not the least bit surprised that everyone who was up for election on the Dover schoolboard and who advocated ID was defeated. This subject is a loser in an election. The average person does not want a religious nutjob in charge of their kids. Unfortunately, the anti-religious nutjobs do a much better job of concealing their true motives, so they get elected.
What is needed is a board that is concerned about teaching basics instead of teaching either religion or anti-religion. I don't see it happening, though.
To: Just mythoughts
right. . .and saying that the solution is to "abandon" the government school for private or home schooling ignores the reality. "Abandon" is a euphemism for "retreat". The additional target of the left is to eliminate all present alternatives to the public school system. Do people think it is a coincidence that liberals are against: vouchers, home schooling, tax exemptions for private religious schools, etc?
When a army turns, cuts and runs. . .that's when the slaughter begins. . .let's take the fight to the enemy ON HIS OWN TUFF!!LET US CONTINUE TO WHINE FOR JUSTICE!!!
Concede no territory that is God's!!
28
posted on
12/28/2005 5:33:31 AM PST
by
McBuff
To: ovrtaxt
Well, that's the deal when we buy a house; some of our property taxes go to the schools. In return, the fact that we are in a VERY good school district has benefits for our property values.
Why do I put up with "confiscation"? It's the law where I live, and tax protesters have a way of living in drafty jail cells rather than comfortable houses like mine. What do you suggest I do, simply refuse to pay the $4500 a year? My freedom is worth rather more than that to me.
To: stratocaster
Good post. I think I tried to touch on some of the same thoughts in my post 26.
30
posted on
12/28/2005 5:38:58 AM PST
by
cvq3842
To: PatrickHenry
Government schools are abysmal on nearly every level. Even kids interested in real science are better off in a good private school that teaches creationism. I sent my kid to a private school like that and he's doing just fine as a science major in college.
31
posted on
12/28/2005 5:39:50 AM PST
by
Varda
To: wolfcreek
Cal Thomas is the most-distributed conservative columnist out there. He is also associated with many Christian organizations. Not exactly a libertarian.
32
posted on
12/28/2005 5:43:38 AM PST
by
indcons
To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
Ask your son when the SOUL was inserted in the "human" species.
33
posted on
12/28/2005 5:44:27 AM PST
by
aumrl
(OH MY feelings......)
To: linda_22003
Yes, it's the law, but I'm not going to just roll over and take it. Laws can be changed. (And I agree, tax protesters are fighting a losing battle on a dirty, unwinnable playing field.)
Go to http://www.fairtax.org
That's the beginning of the solution. It abolishes all federal taxes and replaces them with a retail sales tax. Changes the whole game, and changes the psychology of the dependency class.
34
posted on
12/28/2005 5:44:43 AM PST
by
ovrtaxt
(I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
To: thoughtomator
And you may, in fact, be wildly wrong about those who you think "elect" to be childless.
I know quite a few also, but as I have gotten to know some of them better, I have found that more than a few of them tried like hell to have kids, tried IVF, and nothing worked.
Just a thought.
35
posted on
12/28/2005 5:53:34 AM PST
by
dmz
To: ovrtaxt
" It abolishes all federal taxes and replaces them with a retail sales tax. Changes the whole game"
Yes; and would certainly shut down this consumer-based economy in a hurry. That's changing the game, all right!
To: linda_22003
You need to take another look. An economy based on debt will eventually implode anyway.
37
posted on
12/28/2005 5:56:42 AM PST
by
ovrtaxt
(I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
To: PatrickHenry
I was raised is a different culture where inquiry was encouraged rather than catechism, of either camp. We were taught comparative religion in one class and evolutionary biology in another, and encouraged to question in both. The Balkanization of the discussion of the origin of life on Earth and in our universe goes against all that I hold dear about intellectual inquiry. It reminds me of the Balkanization of the abortion issue -- both sides are wrong but neither wants the other to win any ground.
In the origin of species debate, not only do the evolutionist deny the holes in their explanation, they deny the right to question these gaps. The intelligent designers fail in many ways, but are not so dogmatic about criticism, although they do not like being asked to explain who designed the intelligence in the first place -- any all the philosophical flaws that flow from that question.
38
posted on
12/28/2005 6:00:34 AM PST
by
picti
To: ovrtaxt
It's pointless for the two sides to come to an agreement over this issue. Overall, we should, as conservatives, agree that the government has no place in education, since they suck so bad at it.
@@@@@
Well said! Agreeing that government education is not healthy for our children and yet arguing that our only recourse is to ignore it, does not address the problem. Tax money should not be used for harmful agencies and institutions.
39
posted on
12/28/2005 6:01:25 AM PST
by
maica
(We are fighting the War for the Free World and the media is not on our side.)
To: wolfcreek
I'm guessing Cal's a Libertarian? I don't know. He's definitely a Christian. And a conservative. There are Christian libertarians, so he could be that and conservative too. I don't see that as an incompatible mix, although I'm sure that others do. It sounds like a description of some of the Founders, actually. But that's a whole separate topic.
40
posted on
12/28/2005 6:01:37 AM PST
by
PatrickHenry
(Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, common scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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