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To: wyattearp
it isn't much of a stretch to infer that maybe, just maybe, other parts of the bible are in error as well

I think you are spot on.

Matthew 28: Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the sepulcher. And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled the stone back and sat upon it. His appearance was like lightning, and his rainment white as snow. And for fear of him the guards trembled and became like dead men.

Mark 16: Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, brought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. And very early on the first day of the week they went to the tomb when the sun had risen. And they were saying to each one another, “Who will roll away the stone for us from the door of the tomb?” And looking up, they saw that the stone was rolled back; for it was very large. And entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, dressed in a white robe; and they were amazed. .

Luke 24: But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices which they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they went in they did not find the body. While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel; and as they were frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, “Why do you seek the living among the dead?” .

John 20: Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. So she ran, and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “they have taken the lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.” Peter then came out with the other disciple, and they went towards the tomb. They both ran, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first; and stooping to look in, he saw the linen cloths lying there, but he did not go in. .

So were there one or two angels, did an angel sit on the rock, was there an earthquake, were there guards, were there two men, did the disciples run to the tomb? Etc.

The resurrection is the very linchpin of all Christianity! And yet the stories in each of the Gospels for this single most pivotal event in the entire Bible are a far cry from each other. If these verses have this kind of disparity, how is it possible to argue the fine nuances of the others?

A scientific theory can be modified by newly discovered data points when they no longer fit within the framework of that model. So I am certainly open to "junk" evolution should evidence (real, verifiable, peer reviewed) come along that is at odds with the evolutionary model.

Religion on the other hand (being cast in stone) has no checks and balances. Our notions of God are completely subjective as apposed to objective. So with that in mind, do you wonder that all of us (living in a solipsistic universe) have our own ideas of what God is? How then can you use "God" to define or help define the observed models we create to describe this physical universe?

So regarding the Bible, is it allowed to rewrite or junk the parts that are shown to be no longer true as we continue to increase our collective knowledge as a species? In a single word – no!

However, science works just that way. We junk or modify old theories and models as we discover new information that requires us to re-evaluate those models.

325 posted on 12/27/2005 6:48:10 AM PST by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: RadioAstronomer

I am sure you aware that apologists, by a heroic abandonment of all the normal assumptions of narrative, manage to claim that there is no contradiction in those passages (or anywhere else). Just as long as you haven't been boiling any kids in their mother's milk recently.


330 posted on 12/27/2005 7:20:02 AM PST by Thatcherite (More abrasive blackguard than SeaLion or ModernMan)
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To: RadioAstronomer
So with that in mind, do you wonder that all of us (living in a solipsistic universe) have our own ideas of what God is? How then can you use "God" to define or help define the observed models we create to describe this physical universe?

This is a very important point that the vast majority of creationists, ID'ers, etc fail to understand. The many different Christian sects have very different ideas on who Jesus was, what He said, what He did, etc. Wars have been fought over it. There are also many different religions around the world which have beliefs that are totally incompatible with one another. Wars have been fought over that, too. There are many different creation stories out there that are also incompatible with each other (although I can't think of any wars fought over it).

How can anybody who has a particular religious belief support the government taking over the role of religious instruction? I am not a particularly religious person, but I can see the danger in allowing the government to teach it's version of religion in public schools. For example, some Christian sects believe that the Pope is the Anti-Christ. If the people who believe this have a majority on the school board, is this what is going to be taught? I do not understand how anybody could be ok with that.

The first amendment protection of freedom of religion is extremely important. Civilizations have risen and fallen because of governmental assault on religion, and on religious assault on government. The two have to be kept separate.

338 posted on 12/27/2005 8:03:43 AM PST by wyattearp (The best weapon to have in a gunfight is a shotgun - preferably from ambush.)
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To: RadioAstronomer
The resurrection is the very linchpin of all Christianity! And yet the stories in each of the Gospels for this single most pivotal event in the entire Bible are a far cry from each other. If these verses have this kind of disparity, how is it possible to argue the fine nuances of the others?

Yup, but have you ever noticed that they all AGREE on the resurrection itself?

Which is, as you point out, the linchpin itself.

Cheers!

415 posted on 12/27/2005 5:29:42 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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