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To: corkoman
>So what is it you think the Darwin theorized - or do you doubt #s 1 and 2 above??

Survival of the fittest is a tautology and all known mutations are detrimental. Not much to hang any sort of a theory of how everything got here on.

25 posted on 12/26/2005 9:10:06 AM PST by darkocean
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To: darkocean
Survival of the fittest is a tautology

Yes, although it is only a very general description of natural selection, which isn't a tautology

and all known mutations are detrimental.

That isn't true

27 posted on 12/26/2005 9:14:13 AM PST by bobdsmith
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To: darkocean
Survival of the fittest is a tautology and all known mutations are detrimental. Not much to hang any sort of a theory of how everything got here on.

Whoa - you got me. Dang.

...and all known mutations are detrimental. Really, detrimental to who or whom? Those crafty penicillinase-resistant streptococci are very much glad to have a mutation that allows them to live in the presence of penicillin. To them that little mutation is not a detriment.

Not much to hang any sort of a theory of how everything got here on. Who is trying for the "how everything got here" thing?

Tautology indeed. Welcome to FR.

29 posted on 12/26/2005 9:19:30 AM PST by corkoman (Uncompassionate Conservative, (incompassionate?, non-compassionate?))
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To: darkocean
"Survival of the fittest is a tautology

Only because as stated it is a an overly simple generalization. Fittest is not defined as those who survive, but those who pass on their genes to more offspring's offspring than others who do not possess whatever morphological feature the fittest has. The definition is contingent on the environment. If extra long legs enable more offspring to be born then 'survival of the fittest' would mean 'survival of those with the longest legs'. In this form it is not a tautology.

"and all known mutations are detrimental. Not much to hang any sort of a theory of how everything got here on.

Most mutations occur in non-conserved, non-coding areas of the genome so are neutral. Some mutations in the coding and highly conserved NC areas are detrimental but selected out before birth or shortly after birth, some mutations in those areas are beneficial: sickle-cell, milk-tolerence, light colour skin, etc., and many mutations in those areas are neutral, either because they give no benefit given the environment or because they are point mutations that only change the third base in a codon (Changing the third base does not change the amino acid formed by the first two bases).

75 posted on 12/26/2005 11:10:48 AM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: darkocean
and all known mutations are detrimental

Here's an example of a human mutation that increases resistance to HIV infection. Do a search on CCR5. The paper I linked to is a report on research that claims that the gene was selected for because it confers resistance to smallpox; it is claiming that the results of previous research, claiming it was selected for by bubonic plague, are incorrect.

137 posted on 12/26/2005 1:28:18 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: darkocean
all known mutations are detrimental.

That's a howler. There's always a hope you might evolve into lightocean. You creationist guys are just like the anti-Corpernican folks of yore. Guess what, the earth rotates around the sun. Our galaxy is at the fringe of one of billions of galaxies. Life evolved on this planet over a period of 5 billion years. I'm sorry if you faith is so fragile that you cannot handle it.

139 posted on 12/26/2005 1:29:24 PM PST by Maynerd
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