[Jeb] Bush: Science comes before intelligent design [Jeb gets the message]

Miami Herald ^ | 26 December 2005 | Daniel A. Ricker

[Baraonda]

You're dodging the question because there have been NONE. LOL!

[Baraonda]

"Well, I just witnessed Baraonda dodge a question so hard he nearly dislocated something - does that count?"

Where did I dodge a question? It's possible I may have not seen it. I try to answer ALL questions, no matter how inate or idiotic.

[shuckmaster]

Where did I dodge a question?

You just dodged my question on 273. It doesn't matter though. I've already exceeded my limit of 2 replies per troll on a thread...

[Baraonda]

"Yet, according to the Jeb quotes posted in this thread, he did say that he did believe evolution, thus negating your speculation."

I wasn't speculating. I was merely stating that Jeb Bush, like I, believes that evolution is speculation since he does NOT believe that it should be thought in the classrooms.

Jeb Bush did also say that he believes in evolution. I take it, though, that he's an evolutionist in name only or, he's being affected by doublethink, which is the concept of holding two contradictory ideas in one's head and accepting both of them at the same time.

[grey_whiskers]

Err...uhh...sorry. People eat bats, especially the large fruit bats. I hate to do that, but it's true.

And the other way around, too. To quote P.J. O'Rourke:
"But you can watch an enraged fruit bat try to bite a professor from Lima for hours."

Cheers!

...and Merry Christmas!

[Baraonda]

You can rest assured that the coward is monitoring every single post.

[grey_whiskers]

Teach a correct version of the ToE and evolution, including those areas where knowledge is incomplete (and what is being done to rectify the shortage), without mentioning the typical creationist strawman arguments.

Better yet teach the strawman arguments, and carefully denote why they are invalid as logical arguments OR contain shoddy science.

To avoid charges of anti-religious bigotry, show examples of "scientific" errors and show how they were discovered and refuted...
Clearer thinking is always a good idea.

[Baraonda]

Your question is completely irrelevant and off-topic.

Stay on topic, will you?

[grey_whiskers]

Except that the bible does not classify bats as being four-legged flying things. It classifies them as being birds.

How far had cladistics been persued at that point, anyway?

Has Funny Calvin and Hobbes

Ironic link given this thread

[Coyoteman]

Evolution is a lie. Science does not equal evolution. Science is compatible with creation.

[Late to the thread]

What is your training in science that leads you to this conclusion? Or are you just expressing your belief?

[ICE-FLYER]

No, Shuckmaster, merely asking a question would not have come with the qualifier you offered against me. I think its the first time you have even posted to me. There are so many intelligent and right thinking minds on this board and yes there are those seeking to make conservatives look like idiots or what have you but I am hard pressed to know of another subject on this board that has conservatives so at each others throats or willing to leave reasonable and dignified discourse behind.

[Coyoteman]

Science is a discipline of observation, hypothesis construction, testing, modification of hypothesis with the prospect of developing sufficient support or refutation of a theory.

Let me know how that works out for evolution. Until then, I guess we'll just have to accept it by faith.

Here is a data point. No faith required. What say you? (Handsome young lad too.)

---

Fossil: KNM-WT 15000

Site: Nariokotome, West Turkana, Kenya (1)

Discovered By: K. Kimeu, 1984 (1)

Estimated Age of Fossil: 1.6 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, faunal & radiometric data (1, 4)

Species Name: Homo ergaster (1, 7, 8), Homo erectus (3, 4, 7, 10), Homo erectus ergaster (25)

Gender: Male (based on pelvis, browridge) (1, 8, 9)

Cranial Capacity: 880 (909 as adult) cc (1)

Information: Most complete early hominid skeleton (80 bones and skull) (1, 8)

Interpretation: Hairless and dark pigmented body (based on environment, limb proportions) (7, 8, 9). Juvenile (9-12 based on 2nd molar eruption and unfused growth plates) (1, 3, 4, 7, 8). Juvenile (8 years old based on recent studies on tooth development) (27). Incapable of speech (based on narrowing of spinal canal in thoracic region) (1)

Nickname: Turkana Boy (1), Nariokotome Boy

See original source for notes:
Source: http://www.mos.org/evolution/fossils/fossilview.php?fid=38

[Coyoteman]

Teach a correct version of the ToE and evolution, including those areas where knowledge is incomplete (and what is being done to rectify the shortage), without mentioning the typical creationist strawman arguments.

That sounds like a good idea.

In fact, that's what I had all through grad school, with classes in evolution and human races, as well as two advanced seminars in problems in evolution.

Not sure that what is taught at the grad and advanced grad level could be taught in as much detail in high school though.

As for the creationist arguments--sorry, no science there.

[Coyoteman]

wherever the Bible speaks to a scientific fact, it is wholly true and accurate

The global flood? Gimmi a break!

Try this: Problems with a Global Flood, Second Edition, by Mark Isaak.

If you want more, let me know. I have more from my own studies.

[Oztrich Boy]

You completely confuse God explaining things in a way that the people of the day could understanding with falsity.

friendly fire likely

[jwalsh07]

"There are some plausible explanations for why diversification may have been relatively sudden:


The evolution of active predators in the late Precambrian likely spurred the coevolution of hard parts on other animals. These hard parts fossilize much more easily than the previous soft-bodied animals, leading to many more fossils but not necessarily more animals.


Early complex animals may have been nearly microscopic. Apparent fossil animals smaller than 0.2 mm have been found in the Doushantuo Formation, China, forty to fifty-five million years before the Cambrian (Chen et al. 2004). Much of the early evolution could have simply been too small to see.


The earth was just coming out of a global ice age at the beginning of the Cambrian (Hoffman 1998; Kerr 2000). A "snowball earth" before the Cambrian explosion may have hindered development of complexity or kept populations down so that fossils would be too rare to expect to find today. The more favorable environment after the snowball earth would have opened new niches for life to evolve into.


Hox genes, which control much of an animal's basic body plan, were likely first evolving around that time. Development of these genes might have just then allowed the raw materials for body plans to diversify (Carroll 1997)." TalkOrigins

---

That's an awful lot of splainin' for something that wasn't "sudden".

[Oztrich Boy]

Your Turkana Boy is another one of evo's desparate grabs for a true missing link.

please explain. Why isn't Turkana Boy a true missing link?

[Coyoteman]

and all known mutations are detrimental

Here's an example of a human mutation that increases resistance to HIV infection. Do a search on CCR5. The paper I linked to is a report on research that claims that the gene was selected for because it confers resistance to smallpox; it is claiming that the results of previous research, claiming it was selected for by bubonic plague, are incorrect.

Two more examples: Sickle cell anemia. Thalassemia.

darkocean is blown out of the water. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.

Do not have any credibility on future FR posts for a long while.

[Coyoteman]

I hope you live long enough to see evolution fall on its face

Why? Is this a religious thing, or what?

[Baraonda]

No. It's a cult.

300?