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The question even Darwin avoided
The Sydney Morning Herald ^ | 12/22/05 | Paul Davies

Posted on 12/22/2005 7:15:18 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo

WHEN Charles Darwin published On the Origin of Species in 1859, he gave a convincing account of how life has evolved over billions of years from simple microbes to the complexity of the Earth's biosphere to the present. But he pointedly left out how life got started.

One might as well speculate about the origin of matter, he quipped. Today scientists have a good idea of how matter originated in the Big Bang, but the origin of life remains shrouded in mystery.

Although Darwin refused to be drawn on how life began, he conjectured in a letter to a friend about "a warm little pond" in which various substances would accumulate.

Driven by the energy of sunlight, these chemicals might become increasingly complex, until a living cell formed spontaneously. Darwin's idle speculation became the basis of the "primordial soup" theory of biogenesis, and was adopted by researchers eager to re-create the crucial steps in the laboratory. But this approach hasn't got very far.

The problem is that even the simplest known organism is incredibly complex. Textbooks vaguely describe the pathway from non-living chemicals to primitive life in terms of some unspecified "molecular self-assembly".

The problem lies with 19th-century thinking, when life was regarded as some sort of magic matter, fostering the belief that it could be cooked up in a test tube if only one knew the recipe.

Today many scientists view the living cell as a type of supercomputer - an information-processing and replicating system of extraordinary fidelity. DNA is a database, and a complex encrypted algorithm converts its instructions into molecular products.

(Excerpt) Read more at smh.com.au ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: crevo; crevolist; darwin; intelligentdesign
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To: mvpel

The real thought is what happens to creation when the world ends or maybe the world will not end but thats not scientific.


21 posted on 12/22/2005 7:37:42 AM PST by chas1776
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Most of you know that I'm young Earth creationist, but this has been something about ToE that's always interested me.

I learned in HS science class (this may have changed since I got out though) that there is a scientific law stating that spontaneous generation does not occur, that is, life doesn't come from things that aren't alive. ToE, however, pretty much relies on the hypothesis that it can.

Today many scientists view the living cell as a type of supercomputer - an information-processing and replicating system of extraordinary fidelity. DNA is a database, and a complex encrypted algorithm converts its instructions into molecular products.

Having a BS degree in computer science, I can say with some level of authority that this is actually a pretty darn good characterization. What amazed me about computer science in college was the degree to which computer science now overlaps with biology, physics, philosophy, neurology, and of all things, religion. Especially when you start getting into artificial intelligence (not that cheap scifi BS you see on Star Trek like Commander Data. 'Thinking' computers will likely not exist as long as we are using solely state electronics in their construction).
22 posted on 12/22/2005 7:39:16 AM PST by JamesP81
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To: Sybeck1

nothing


23 posted on 12/22/2005 7:39:28 AM PST by pipecorp (Let's have a CRUSADE! , the 'slims have already started. 1900 useless replies and still going!)
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To: NC28203
It generates no testable hypotheses and otherwise does not conform with the scientific method.

In that case, about half of Einsteins theories shouldn't be discussed in science classes.

What is the testable hypotheses of E=mc2
24 posted on 12/22/2005 7:40:12 AM PST by HEY4QDEMS (Iraqis thank our troops more often than Democrats.)
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To: HEY4QDEMS
What is the testable hypotheses of E=mc2?

Two examples which come immediately to mind are the atomic bomb and nuclear power plants.

25 posted on 12/22/2005 7:43:11 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: orionblamblam
Some virii are quite simple.

I don't suppose you could build one for us so we can see how simple it really is? Hint: Be sure to leave out all intelligence and design in the process.

26 posted on 12/22/2005 7:43:19 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: JamesP81
'Thinking' computers will likely not exist as long as we are using solely state electronics in their construction

err...that's 'are using solely solid state electronics...'

PIMF
27 posted on 12/22/2005 7:44:27 AM PST by JamesP81
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To: Vaquero; Junior
Thanks for the ping, but this isn't for the evolution list.

Junior, archival ping.

28 posted on 12/22/2005 7:44:36 AM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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To: HEY4QDEMS

E=mc2 passes tough MIT test
Work to be reported in Nature

In a fitting cap to the World Year of Physics 2005, MIT physicists and colleagues from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) report the most precise direct test yet of Einstein's most famous equation, E=mc2.

And, yes, Einstein still rules.

The team found that the formula predicting that energy and mass are equivalent is correct to an incredible accuracy of better than one part in a million. That's 55 times more precise than the best previous test.

Why undertake the exercise? "In spite of widespread acceptance of this equation as gospel, we should remember that it is a theory. It can be trusted only to the extent that it is tested with experiments," said team member David E. Pritchard, the Cecil and Ida Green Professor of Physics at MIT, associate director of MIT's Research Laboratory for Electronics (RLE) and a principal investigator in the MIT-Harvard Center for Ultracold Atoms.

As he and colleagues report their results in the Dec. 22 issue of Nature: "If this equation were found to be even slightly incorrect, the impact would be enormous -- given the degree to which [it] is woven into the theoretical fabric of modern physics and everyday applications such as global positioning systems."

In the famous equation, E stands for energy, m for mass, and c for the speed of light. "In the test, we at MIT measured m, or rather the change in m associated with the energy released by a nucleus when it captures a neutron," said former MIT graduate student Simon Rainville.

The NIST scientists, led by Scott Dewey, measured E. (The speed of light is a defined and therefore exactly known quantity, so it was simply plugged into the equation.)

Specifically, the NIST team determined the energy of the particles of light, or gamma rays, emitted by the nucleus when it captures a neutron. They did so using a special spectrometer to detect the small deflection of the gamma rays after they passed through a very pure crystal of silicon.

The mass loss was obtained at MIT by measuring the difference between the mass of the nucleus before the emission of a gamma ray and after. The mass difference was measured by comparing the cyclotron orbit frequencies of two single molecules trapped in a strong magnetic field for several weeks.

Pritchard notes that the mass of the nucleus is about 4,000 times larger than the much smaller mass difference. As a result, "determining the mass difference requires the individual masses to be measured with the incredible accuracy of one part in 100 billion -- equivalent to measuring the distance from Boston to Los Angeles to within the width of a human hair!"

Despite the results of the current test of E=mc2, Pritchard said, "This doesn't mean it has been proven to be completely correct. Future physicists will undoubtedly subject it to even more precise tests because more accurate checks imply that our theory of the world is in fact more and more complete."


29 posted on 12/22/2005 7:45:07 AM PST by NC28203
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
****Students and teachers will never be able to discuss the possibility of an Intelligent Designer creating Life, because Judge Jones and the ACLU have said that unguided evolution is the only possibility and competing theories can't be discussed in science class. Sad, really.****

Maybe you missed it, but Jones' decision is limited only to his Federal District. And since it won't be appealed, the larger area of that particular Appellate Court isn't effected.

So it's not as bad or dire as it seems.

That being said, the original Dover School District members brought this decision on themselves. It's been reported that they publicly stated that their intent was to push "creationism", not "I.D.". There's a HUGH distinction between the two.

30 posted on 12/22/2005 7:45:40 AM PST by Condor51 (Leftists are moral and intellectual parasites - Standing Wolf)
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To: mvpel
Two examples which come immediately to mind are the atomic bomb and nuclear power plants.

Atomic energy has absoluly nothing to do with the theory of relativity Energy = Mass times (186000 MPS squared).
31 posted on 12/22/2005 7:46:44 AM PST by HEY4QDEMS (Iraqis thank our troops more often than Democrats.)
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To: HEY4QDEMS
This statement insinuates deceit and is BS. He left it out because he didn't know the answer, he didn't "pointedly" omit it.

It drives me crazy when people write crap like this.

Dr. Davies is one of the most famous evolutionists and physicists in the World. Why would he lie about something like that?

32 posted on 12/22/2005 7:46:52 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo (The best theory is not ipso facto a good theory. Lots of links on my homepage...)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Nothing in this Davies piece suggests that there was an intelligent designer of life.


33 posted on 12/22/2005 7:48:01 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: Buck W.

"Faith and evolution coexist"
Agreed. Both schools are partly right and both are partly wrong.


34 posted on 12/22/2005 7:48:36 AM PST by DogBarkTree
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Why would he lie about something like that?

I don't know, but lets not drink the credentials koolaid, if he accuses someone of a deliberate act, he should at least produce some proof.
37 posted on 12/22/2005 7:53:34 AM PST by HEY4QDEMS (Iraqis thank our troops more often than Democrats.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
I don't understand how people with little knowledge of the scientific process can make statements like "Evolution isn't science" and think that's even remotely factual.

Sorry to lay a bum trip on those that believe evolution is not science, but evolution is a provable scientific theory (proven through scientific experiments and through the peer review process). But what would a biologist know? What next? Natural selection, one the provable foundations of evolution isn't "science"? Natural genetic mutation rates? Inbreeding coefficients?

38 posted on 12/22/2005 7:54:22 AM PST by ElectricStrawberry (27th Infantry Regiment...cut in half during the Clinton years....Nec Aspera Terrent!!!)
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To: HEY4QDEMS
What is the testable hypotheses of E=mc2


39 posted on 12/22/2005 7:56:55 AM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: bobbdobbs
There are no "laws" in science dealing with things that are unknown, unsettled, or have ambiguous data.

Yet, it is taught in school that life does not arise from non-living matter, or at least it was up until about 6 or 7 years ago.

Since it is known that life arose from non-life, no one would postulate at law which contradicts that occurance. There are now "laws" in science dealing with things that are unknown, unsettled, or have ambiguous data.

This, in fact, is not known for certain.
40 posted on 12/22/2005 7:58:01 AM PST by JamesP81
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