Pilots say new U.S. stealth fighter has no equal [F-22]

HeraldToday.com ^ | Wed, Dec. 21, 2005

[Flavius]

thats really cool, how is it against combating media bias

[JohnG45]

Don't be embarrassed by the fact that we lost. To me it was a great learning experience and allows us to really see where we stand. Remember, since the end of the war in Vietnam, US pilots were never really tested in combat until Desert Storm. And, I 'll bet US pilots during that time still considered themselves to be the best while never being tested in combat. Israeli pilots are tested every day.

As for your suggestion that the US might be holding something back during these war games, couldn't the same be said about the Israelis?

Also, I remember this information about the loss was "leaked" to the press since our Armed Forces were embarrassed.

[appeal2]

They will demand due process and court orders to shoot down enemy combatants.

[Gaffer]

....The "Up Time" on these planes is going to be one of their strongest features.... I hope it does better than the B-2.. I'm not trying to be defeatist about the Raptor, I work next door to where they're built and have had some experience with maintainability of aircraft. When you start getting exotic with avionics (the B-1 was so sophisticated, it could jam itself...), reflective coatings et cetera, maintenance logistics goes up.... when they figure out how to use a Ford Pickup transmission, or other similar part, then it really gets maintainable..... Also, I'm not so sure that the Tiger tank was merely for defensive means....in an open field, the firepower and range would have been deadly, even, as you say they were mechanically deficient and slow to turret..

[ZULU]

AWESOME!!

Please put me on your list.

[Moonman62]

"We want to kick the door down so the air space is clear for any (aircraft) you want to go in," Krumm said. "Someone could come in flying a Cessna 172 with a pistol if you wanted after we're done."

LOL!

"You can imagine if you are 60,000 feet doing mach 1.9 (about 1,400 mph) and these bombs are flying out of your airplane, the swath of hell you can produce going through a country saying 'I'll take that target, and that target'."

LOL again. It's just not fair.

[Veloxherc]

"They will demand due process and court orders to shoot down enemy combatants."

You are not far from the truth. In the room with the "big board" where they control the air war, there is a JAG that really runs the show!

[Tallguy]

"Embarrassment" has nothing to do with it. The IAF is probably better at certain missions than the USAF, and may indeed be better 'overall' (however you measure that), I really don't know. For instance, it would be reasonable to assume that the IDF is better at Air-to-Air & SAM suppression, since they have to be prepared to do it everyday (more like every time they take to the air).

The USAF has missions that the Israeli's don't really have. For instance the Israelis don't have to take a combat air wing half-way around the world, plunk it down, supply it, and maintain combat operations. All of those extra missions compete for training time & budgets. Pair down the missions & you can afford to specialize a bit more.

[TankerKC]

THanks to Gen. Merril McPeak, there will only be one Military...

What's McPeak up to now?

[r9etb]

but outside experts estimate they cost more than $350 million each when research and development expenses are added.

Horse crap. The R&D costs apply to the first plane only.

[Zavien Doombringer]

Haven't followed in a while. But Project Warrior was a wake-up call. I was at 3rd TFW in Clark when the PT standards were changed.

McPeak was in the process of combining the missions of all the branches while he was head of the chiefs of staff...

The uniforms chnaged, the misions changed with more joint ops... a good thing I guess.

[Tallguy]

Point taken. I understand that the F-22A makes far less use of radar absorbing coatings.

I understand that the F-117 has to be 'buttered' before each mission to fill-in voids between panels & surface imperfections. Kinda hard to see how you can use a stealth weapon from a primative forward airstrip unless you can cut your reliance on things like that. I assume, for instance, that the B2 can really only operate from 2 places: Whitman AFB (Missouri) & Diego Garcia.

[r9etb]

The Vayrag is not something to be taken lightly. Fully equiped it would approach a 65,000 ton displacement and embark 40-50 modern jet fighter and attack aircraft. As such, it would be the equal (it is in fact a newer design) to the Russian Kuznetzov and would be the largest carrier in the world outside of America's super-carriers.

My office had a summer intern once who was in the Navy ROTC. He was telling us about a fleet exercise that he got the chance to be a part of. Eventually they had to tell the attack subs to go away because they kept "sinking" the carriers, despite the best efforts of the anti-sub guys.

Are the carriers dangerous? Yes. Are they vulnerable? Definitely yes.

[Tallguy]

Horse crap. The R&D costs apply to the first plane only.

Not only that, but the R&D costs have already been spent. Even if the critics managed to cancel that program, that money doesn't come back. Cut the buy and all you succeed in doing is driving up the pro-rated portion of the aircraft dedicated to R&D. Simple accounting, but it might be beyond the ability of your basic J-school grad.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Military leaders say the plane will ensure American air dominance for years to come.

Or until the technology is stolen ... or bartered for a campaign contribution by the next Clinton in the White House.

Ironically, the drawback of the plane being expensive becomes an advantage if someone steals the technology. They can't afford to build copies. I love the US.

[Gaffer]

.. I assume, for instance, that the B2 can really only operate from 2 places: Whitman AFB (Missouri) & Diego Garcia...

I'd say that's probably a good assumption...my thoughts about it when it's actually been used is that they get it out at the beginning of a conflict, fly a marathon mission to bomb the $hit out of some poor target, fly home and claim success, never to be seen again. This being done to justify its existence and utility...I've even heard that it can't be rained on, and don't get me started about radar stealth....low frequency radars are our enemies' friend....

[Porterville]

And these are just the ones we know about

[wagglebee]

"We want to kick the door down so the air space is clear for any (aircraft) you want to go in," Krumm said. "Someone could come in flying a Cessna 172 with a pistol if you wanted after we're done."

"Our airplane is entirely offensive. Not only am I stealthy, but I'll also hunt you down and kill you if you get in my way."

I love the sound of that!

[Joe Boucher]

I have a pilots licence and during trianing my c.f.i. had me make a couple of landings at night at the local general aviation airport with no lights on.
I told him what the hell, I'm not going to run drugs or anything, why this?
He told me so that if I lost electricity in the craft I knew I could still land if I'd practiced.
Never know when your high tech stuff will be disabled and you have to make a go of your more basic equipment.
Thanks