Posted on 12/21/2005 1:12:17 PM PST by AFA-Michigan
I knew someone who thought the ACLU was an agency of the U.S. government. :-p
Mine too! I called everyone I know to tell them about it LOL!!
The world is filled with ignorance, isn't it?
I didn't see this on the CNN web site either. What good are these victories if no one but FReepers know about it?
"6th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals Tuesday issued an historic decision declaring that "the First Amendment does not demand a wall of separation between church and state."
Hallelujah!!! Finally, a demonstration from the courts that shows both brains and the chutzpah to call the ACLU liars!
"Atheism: The only religion truly endorsed by the US government."
Not true! It's endorsed by the ACLU, which is not a government entity.
"All the Constitution says is that "there shall be no establishment of religion." That's very different from a wall of separation. And if Jefferson used that phrase in a letter..."
Jefferson's words were taken out of context to make the point for the ACLU. See http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpost.html
Actually, no, it did not. Not in the American context. In fact I don't think there was a single state at the time the Constitution was adopted that had a single establishment, i.e. establishing one and only one church or denomination. They all had either multiple or general establishments. That is either more than one church was recognized as official or received direct government aid (multiple establishment), or there was some scheme along the lines of a religion tax which might be mandatory, but the person paying the tax could determine the church that received it (general establishment).
Single establishments were not the norm even during most of the Colonial era. Even where they existed pro-forma they were soon "multiplized" or generalized de-facto.
Besides, if congress had meant what you say they meant, why didn't they just say so? Why didn't the use the term "national religion" instead of the naked and general term "religion"? The "national religion" language was considered and was rejected. They specifically chose the most general language possible.
Praise the Lord and pass the frosted liberals!
The key word is "establishment." It has a very definite meaning in English and in England.
The constitution doesn't say anything one way or the other about state establishment of religion. It just says there shall be no establishment of religion on the national level.
In the seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries, nearly every European country had an established Church. In England it was the Church of England. In France it was the Catholic Church. There was no Germany, but the various German states all had established religions.
There might be various degrees of tolerance of other religions. In England, even fairly recently, it was customary usage to speak of "church" and "chapel." A stranger might be asked, "Are you church or chapel?" Anglicans have churches, Methodists and others have chapels. Catholics not mentioned in polite society.
Has this got legs??
OMG! FINALLY, someone with a brain has interpreted the Constitution the way it was meant to be, now, is there something in there forbidding forming a group known as the ACLU?
I guess someone watched the Brit Hume special on Sunday night. He showed that the "wall of separation" phrase was penned by Thomas Jefferson early in the 1800's. It was incorrectly cited by Justice Black, I believe, which started us down that road.
Defining the 'Wall of Separation'
Pat Centner
Agape Press
Thomas Jefferson was a brilliant and prolific writer who waxed eloquent on hundreds of subjects during the years he served as a Virginia statesman and, later, president of the United States. Author of the Virginia Statute for Establishing Religious Freedom, Jefferson's strongly-held convictions on the subject of religious liberty were often misunderstood.
Yet, with all his discourse on the subject, only one time in any of his writings or speeches did Jefferson ever mention the now famous metaphor, "wall of separation between church and state."
Remarkably, this phrase has, in the minds of many, replaced the actual text of the Constitution's First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
One thing about this announcement that needs watching. The decision was made by a panel of judges from the 6th Circuit. If it gets up to the full court, a different opinion could prevail.
In the meantime, have a very Merry Christmass. and may the Peace of Our Lord be with you always.
Semper Fi
by far the best bews I have read today. God bless the 6th Circuit Court.. any chance the 9th Circus will try and up them?
Old Man is right, of course, that the 6th Circuit decision could be appealed to the full circuit or to the Supremes.
But it's like the Marines assaulting a fortress. The first wave may in fact be repelled, but this is the first time I know of in my lifetime that a federal appeals court even TRIED to breach the wall. It encourages and invigorates the second wave, and so on.
It's offense, rather than having to fight a succession of defensive battles.
Semper Fi to you as well. I did the Army (cause I was too old for the Marines when I enlisted), but my Dad was a WWII Leatherneck, part of a unit that won a Presidential Unit Citation for taking down a Jap Zero on the Day of Infamy with WWI rifle fire. In 2002, I stood on that same street with him.
Wonder if Jay Sekulow was arguing this case.
Merry Christmas
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