Osteen family leaves plane after dispute (pastor's wife didn't follow a fa's instructions)

Houston Chronicle ^ | 12-21-05 | ARMANDO VILLAFRANCA and HARVEY RICE

[truthandlife]

A dispute involving the wife of Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen delayed holiday travel plans for a planeload of passengers, but few details were released Tuesday.

At least some people aboard the Continental Airlines flight were less than pleased after waiting about two hours at Bush Intercontinental Airport while the Osteens left the plane and their luggage was removed, said a woman who witnessed the incident.

"She was just abusive," said Sheila Steele, who said she was sitting behind Victoria Osteen. "She was just like one of those divas."

A church spokesman said the couple and their children left the plane voluntarily after the incident Monday and took another flight to Vail, Colo.

However, FBI Special Agent Luz Garcia said the Osteens were asked to leave the jetliner after an "altercation." She said Victoria Osteen "failed to comply" with instructions from the flight attendant. She added that no one was detained.

The incident occurred in the first class section on Flight 1602. Continental spokeswoman Julie King declined to give details.

The Osteens could not be reached for comment, and the Chronicle was unable to contact other passengers to corroborate Steele's version of events. However, the Vail Daily newspaper reported similar accounts of the incident from other first-class passengers.

Passenger Barbara Griffith told the Colorado paper that Joel Osteen was "very calm, very professional."

Lakewood Church spokesman Donald Iloff said Victoria Osteen contacted a flight attendant after noticing that a liquid had been spilled on her seat. The spill apparently was not cleaned up to her satisfaction, Iloff said. The family left the plane voluntarily and took another flight, Iloff said.

The airline issued a statement saying corporate policy forbids identifying passengers.

"There have been various accounts regarding events that occurred on one of our flights," the statement added. "We can confirm that there are no remaining issues between (Continental Airlines) and those passengers, and therefore, both parties feel no further comment is necessary."

Steele said Victoria Osteen was upset about liquid on her pull-down tray and asked a flight attendant to have it cleaned. When the attendant, who was carrying paperwork to the cockpit, told her she couldn't do it immediately, Osteen replied, "Fine, get me a stewardess who can," Steele said.

She said Victoria Osteen pushed a flight attendant and tried to get into the cockpit. Passengers quoted in the Colorado paper did not address those details.

Soon after, authorities were called to the plane, she said, although it was not clear Tuesday whether they were airline officials.

Garcia said Continental officials contacted the FBI about the incident. The agency decided not to investigate.

"It was quickly resolved between the airline and the Osteens," Garcia said.

Steele said she and other passengers were upset that they had to wait about two hours while the Osteens' baggage was removed from the plane.

Joel Osteen is a nationally known author of self-help books.

He became pastor of Lakewood Church in October 1999, building it into what some observers say is the largest church in the U.S.

Victoria Osteen also preaches and plays a significant role at the church.

The congregation in July moved into the 16,000-seat Compaq Center.

[ItsOurTimeNow]

>>If a particular minister/ministry's style isn't your cup of tea, SHUT UP and go somewhere else. God has all sorts of different ministers and ministry gifts, because people are different, and the people who like quiet kneeling are not going to be reached by people who like shouting and praise; and those who like music won't be reached by those who like contemplation.<<

While the main jist of your post is true - what happens when preachers are not preaching sound doctrine?

In a lot of cases, the criticism goes far beyond worship styles. A lot of it is centered around preaching that is simply non-Biblical. Man-pleasing, watered-down, "I'm ok - you're ok" heresy.

At that point, Christians have an obligation to expose false teachers and denounce their work.

[lawgirl]

Yeah I agree that they will always find something- but IMO this behavior is ridiculous. You can get upset with grace and composure and not make a scene and inconvenience everyone else.

[Guenevere]

No one commenting on these posts seem to know what really happened on this flight with this woman.

I think they want to insert their biased opinions of Osteen, church people, etc. rather than wait for the facts.

Having said that, I'm not familiar with Osteen other than seeing his picture on books....and reading he preaches a 'prosperity type gospel'...

...that is not my cup of tea.

But some folks here are really quick to judge this woman as a witch on wheels just because she's involved in this type of ministry.

Whether I, or anyone else, agrees with their large church, their message or their lifestyle....

..we simply don't know the facts to make such comments here.

[LS]

I think Christians can leave it to God to expose the work. Christians need to focus more on what THEY are teaching, and less on what OTHERS are teaching. If you believe as I do that the truth will win out---exactly what Gamaliel said---then there is no problem.

The obsession with "correcting" "false doctrine" is really an admission that you don't trust God to take care of false doctrine Himself. Most of the time, of course, it isn't "false" doctrine, but a true interpretation that runs against the grain of an established denomination. Paul came across many of these, and modified his teaching to every different group.

I'm not saying a Jim Jones doesn't come along every once in a while, but have you ever heard of anyone dissuaded from going along with JJ due to someone else "exposing" him? I haven't. Usually, it only makes people dig in their heels even more.

[70times7]

Yeah, I know. They also build themselves a self serving cushion with lyrics like "What if I Fall", while in the same album berate other christians with sarcasm. That doesn't change the accuracy of the message one bit.

I'm one of God's problem children, myself. I'm even aware that that statement is my own brand self serving excuse.

[theFIRMbss]

>I can only imagine is because she didn't want to stain her bible whilst preparing for the family missionary work to the poor and destitute of Vail

Billy-Ray was a preacher's son
And when his daddy would visit he'd come along
When they'd gather 'round and started talkin'
Is when Billy would take me walkin'
Through the backyard we'd go walkin'
And then he'd look into my eyes
And lord knows to my surprise...

The only one who could ever reach me
Was the son of a preacher man
The only boy who could ever teach me
Was the son of a preacher man
Yes he was, yes he was
Oh, yes he was

Being good isn't always easy
No matter how hard I'd try
When he started sweet-talkin' to me
He'd come and tell me everything is all right
He'd kiss and tell me everything is all right
And can we get away again tonight?

The only one who could ever reach me
Was the son of a preacher man
The only boy who could ever teach me
Was the son of a preacher man
Yes he was, yes he was
Oh, yes he was

How well I remember
The look that was in his eyes
Stealin' kisses from me on the sly
Takin' time to make time
Tellin' me that he's all mine
Learnin' from each other's knowing
Lookin' to see how much we been growin'

And the only one who could ever reach me
Was the son of a preacher man
The only boy who could ever teach me
Was the son of a preacher man
Yes he was, yes he was

Oh
The only one who could ever reach me
Was the son of a preacher man
The only boy who could ever teach me
Was the son of a preacher man

[AppyPappy]

When the preacher's(and everyone else) get famous, they get used to having people cater to them. When they don't get "the respect they deserve", it drives them nuts. That's what happened to Schuller and probably what happened here. I'm sure Victoria is used to be waited upon and fawned over as "the beautiful wife and partner of Joel Osteen of Lakewood Church". There are always people willing to do that kind of thing. I bet this is a very interesting trip with the damage control in full operation.

I am reminded of the rule in the White House that no one make eye contact with Hillary. She didn't want "little people" eyeballing her. Too disrespectful.

[ichabod1]

Well, I have to admit, sometimes I see him grinning that big toothy grin, and I think is this guy for real? Or could he be Satan (tan-tan-tan) himself?

[ichabod1]

What you say is true.

[em2vn]

"As a devout believer...."
That always makes an alarm sound in my mind.

[AppyPappy]

Nah, he's just been coached well. The eye-blinking thing is a subconscious signal that broadcasts love or affection. I learned that in theatre years ago. That is also true of the leaning forward and smiling that he does quite a bit. When he steps out from behind the podium, he is making the point that he is being more sincere at this point. He is opening himself. Clinton used to do it before he offered to feel someone's pain.

It's not wrong. It's just part of the experience. They have really good choreography and camera work.

[ItsOurTimeNow]

>>I think Christians can leave it to God to expose the work. Christians need to focus more on what THEY are teaching, and less on what OTHERS are teaching.<<

Unfortunately, the Bible disagrees with you:

1 Thess 2:11-12; 1 Thess 5:21; 2 Tim 4:2; Eph 5; 1 John 4:1; The Bereans in Acts 17; and every single Biblical warning to avoid false teachers. You cannot determine false teachings unless you test their words and discern if they're preaching the truth.

>>The obsession with "correcting" "false doctrine" is really an admission that you don't trust God to take care of false doctrine Himself.<<

Not at all - see above. Making a righteous, discerned judgement is straight-up Biblical doctrine.

>>Most of the time, of course, it isn't "false" doctrine, but a true interpretation that runs against the grain of an established denomination.<<

And there are a lot that use false interpretations just to get as many people in the door as possible; while at the same time forsaking Biblical truth. Gotta pay those huge mortgages, don't they? And you sure as heck can't fill seats if you're telling people that they're sinners in need of redemption. That offends too many who are looking for speakers to satisfy their "itching ears".

>>but have you ever heard of anyone dissuaded from going along with JJ due to someone else "exposing" him? I haven't. Usually, it only makes people dig in their heels even more.<<

Our job is not to pursuade or dissuade. Our job is to proclaim Biblical truth, and from what I've seen Osteen is very light on using scriptural exegisis to prove his points. A lot of it is watered-down feel-goodism.

[angkor]

Anyone that uses commercial airlines can be sympathetic to the frustraton of the lady

(a) I think Osteen is OK, he's on right after Fox with Chris Wallace on Sundays, so I tend to catch him at the program change.

(b) His wife is human, may have overreacted, and may just have gone through a stressful "TSA experience".

(c) The stewardess may also have been overreacting, I've experienced them being unreasonably rude and nearly-sadistic in their treatment of passengers.

Since none of us were there, we can reasonably cut all of the players some slack, because we don't know exactly what transpired, or why.

[TankerKC]

HWJF = How Would Jesus Fly? (First Class, of course!)

WWJS = Where Would Jesus Ski? (Vail, apparently!)

[Terabitten]

In a lot of cases, the criticism goes far beyond worship styles. A lot of it is centered around preaching that is simply non-Biblical. Man-pleasing, watered-down, "I'm ok - you're ok" heresy. At that point, Christians have an obligation to expose false teachers and denounce their work.

That's the truth. I don't really care what "style" of worship you have - whether it's amped-up praise and worship, a capella singing, or traditional hymns banged out on an out-of-tune piano. What does the preacher SAY? The rest is, for me, more or less irrelevant. I get far more out of the sermon than I do out of the praise and worship portion of the service.

[theFIRMbss]

>Nah, he's just been coached well. The eye-blinking thing is a subconscious signal that broadcasts love or affection. I learned that in theatre years ago. That is also true of the leaning forward and smiling that he does quite a bit. When he steps out from behind the podium, he is making the point that he is being more sincere at this point. He is opening himself

[Bitsy]

Exactly, people think because you are a Christian you have to be perfect at all times. We are not perfect by far. There was only one perfect person and we killed Him! Thank God for unconditional love.!

[Bitsy]

Exactly, people think because you are a Christian you have to be perfect at all times. We are not perfect by far. There was only one perfect person and we killed Him! Thank God for unconditional love.!

[Onelifetogive]

"As a devout believer...." That always makes an alarm sound in my mind.

Good point. How about:

"As one who usually often tries to do his best, especially if people are watching..."

[OKIEDOC]

Jim Jones of Kool Aide in Guiana fame once said, "If you want to make money in the preaching game then drive a Cadillac, live in a big house and wear fancy clothes".

He also said .......well he took 900 plus people to their graves.

Is this Osteen one of those Jump and Shout, Holy Roller hypocrites who constantly bash other religions like a bunch of immature Dimorats bash conservatives.