Posted on 12/20/2005 4:08:06 PM PST by truthandlife
A dispute that involved the wife of Houston's most famous pastor, Joel Osteen, and a Continental Airlines flight attendant ended up delaying a flight for hours Monday. And now, Victoria Osteen's actions on that flight are in the spotlight. Also on ABC13.com: Send us a news tip | RSS feeds | ABC13 E-lert | Info mentioned on air Statements from Lakewood and Continental Following the incident on Continental flight 1602 Monday, both Lakewood Church and Continental Airlines released these statements. The Osteens run the largest church in the nation, so passengers on a Continental flight were shocked Monday when Mrs. Osteen was removed from that flight after a disturbance.
Taking time off from the high profile hustle and bustle of running a mega-church, Lakewood Church Pastor Joel Osteen and his family boarded Continental flight 1602 Monday morning at Houston's big airport. They were bound for the slopes in Colorado.
Their trip was delayed and so was the entire flight by almost two hours. Fellow passengers blame the popular Osteens, specifically Joel's wife, Victoria.
According to passenger accounts, the Osteens were sitting in first class. Soon after the plane's door was closed, the FBI says Victoria Osteen was removed following what Continental would call only a disturbance. The Osteens' spokesman confirms it involved a flight attendant, but that's all. However, one passenger tells Eyewitness News she was alerted to the front of the plane when she heard a commotion.
"She violently ran towards the cockpit, scaring everyone around her," said passenger Knicky Van Slyke. "Everyone was terrified about what was going on. And a bunch of flight attendants ran up and had to restrain her. She was banging on the door."
"Of the cockpit?" we asked.
"Yes."
Passengers say Victoria was removed first. Joel and the children followed. Meantime, everyone waited.
"They unloaded all the luggage to get their luggage and deplaned her, Joel, and the kids," said passenger Dawn Dixon.
Passenger Chad Clay said, "They kept telling us they were waiting on some passengers to find their luggage underneath in the plane, and it was going to be delayed for looking for that luggage."
According to the Transportation Security Administration, federal air marshals were never involved. Local authorities also know nothing of this event. Continental would not discuss details.
The Osteens' spokesman denies a physical altercation, denies Victoria ever banged on the cockpit door, and says she left on her own.
"The account of the event which has come to our attention is inaccurate and overblown. The misunderstanding was minor and was resolved when Victoria voluntarily removed herself from the situation," read the statement.
The FBI says it was not voluntary. Though agents are not investigating, they will review the incident as the Osteens enjoy their Colorado vacation.
The Osteens' spokesman says they took another flight to Colorado Monday.
Nobody has been charged. As for the FBI's involvement, we're told it's standard procedure for them to review all passenger removal incidents. According to Continental, this one is a closed case.
Pastor Joel Osteen preaches to an average of 40,000 people a week at Lakewood Church services. Lakewood opened in the former home of the Rockets, Compaq Center, back in July. It took $90 million and a year and a half of renovations. Osteen's ministry is taped and aired around the world.
They had knowledge of his coming because they knew from the writings of Daniel that a king was to be born. While Daniel was in Persia he taught there. You really ae hung up with the messengers aren't you. The fact remains they brought GOLD, IMHO a lot of it.
I guess she forgot to "name it and claim it".
Love your vocabulary!
She may ask TOM CRUISE for some advice....
Its interesting how much Jewish theology (and, by extension, Christianity) overlaps (or owes to, depending on your point of view) the earlier writings of Zoroaster...the one parallel that readily comes to mind is the prophecy that the earth will be destroyed by a reign of fire from the sky....there are others but I'm too tired to look them up now...
which does not necessarily mean that these religions were willfully 'borrowing one from the other', but can also be read as indicating that God gave partial insights through time to different people along the way (Zoroasterism to Judaism to Christianity)...there is enough in common with these three religions that its an argument that has some plausibility...of course Zoroasterism is not well-known today because it was practically wiped out by Islam 1000+ years ago (only about 100,000 of its adherents still exist, mostly in India, where they fled to escape the Mohammedans, and, interestingly, they still see themselves as the keepers of the one "true religion"...)
Daniel was in Persia and is one of the more apocolyptic books of the Bible. I believe what they got came from Daniel's time there. He was very influential there. I never got your response to your anger at messengers. If you got saved in terms that you understand why does it matter who gave you the message.
Full Disclosure: Something about Osteen gets on my nerves, the earlier line about "Vaseline on the teeth" is fairly close. But I haven't definitively made up my mind one way or the other yet.
Cheers!
I've attended large churches and attended small ones. Each has their strengths and each their weaknesses. The large ones can become too impersonal. The small ones can become too personal. The large ones can get wayward because they become too corporate or political. The small ones can get wayward because too few are depended upon to do too much. In the large ones, I found the real fellowship and accountability came in being part of a weekly Bible study. That's probably where I learned the most - in a "church" within the church.
I agree, many of these responses are disheartening. I'm not a fan of Joel Osteen, to be honest I don't know much about him, except that my mother--one of the dearest, most God-fearing persons on the planet--loves his books. His books brought her hope by bringing her closer to Christ. I get tired of this ranting and railing against "Health and Wealth" ministries; much of it is misinformed about what these ministries preach. I remember when Secrets of the Vine by Bruce Wilkinson (Prayer of Jabez) came out, and there was the typical "shoot insults ask questions never" crowd whining about the "Health and Wealth" ministry, and this group merely confirmed its illiteracy by ignoring the fact that Wilkinson explicitly labels sin and egotism as barriers in the way of experiencing God's blessings.
Corinthians 12:17, "If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?"
If the whole body of Christ was about condemning sin, where would the hope be? If the whole body of Christ was about love, where would the holiness be? There are different roles to be filled in the body of Christ, and not everyone is an ear, and not everyone is an eye. I don't know Osteen very well, but here's a thought--maybe his role isn't to make people feel bad for his sins, but to remind them that God made each individual in His image, and that God loves His children.
To disregard any message of hope for prosperity in this life as unbiblical, is unbiblical in and of itself--just as any message that ignores the consequence of sin and the call for repentance is unbiblical. The Old Testament (I hate that label, I prefer the Hebrew Bible, because Old Testament implies that those 3/4s of the books that make up the Bible are luxuries instead of necessities and thus inferior to the Gospels and Epistles, a conclusion which would surprise Jesus) is riddled with examples and arguments of how material blessings can result from your actions in this life. Prayers to become pregnant, prayers for deliverance from suffering, blessings of wealth if you bless the seed of Abraham, blessing of long life if you honor your parents, financial advice in Proverbs--there is room for preaching on prosperity. If that's Joel Osteen's role in the Body of Christ, so be it. If he is a shuckster, well he'll have his "reward" too. But judging him based solely on this prejudice against the hope of blessings in this life, that's well, ignorance of God's word.
Not everyone's called to be a prison minister, not everyone's called to serve in the 3rd world, not everyone's called to start a small business, not everyone's called to be a teacher, not everyone's called to be a plumber, not everyone's called to preach hellfire and brimstone, not everyone's called to be wealthy, not everyone's called to be poor. As many cells there are in the body, are roles in the Body of Christ. But one things for sure--you won't know what your blessings are or aren't, if a bunch of stick in the mud Christians has disillusioned your faith by swatting down the notion that God can and will bless your life in some way. Some people need to be convicted of their sins, some need to be given hope. I see too many people in this thread indifferent if not antagonistic towards the latter, and seem to have too much fun trying to execute the former.
John 13:34, "Love one another, as I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all mean will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
Possibly the hardest commandment in the Bible, and certainly one I fall victim to. Love your Christian brother, so that the world may bear witness to your example. Can this honestly be said about this thread, or any of the others on this site? It's hard, because we all believe we have it all figured out theologically, and we just can't trust God enough to think that our ignorance will be filled by His wisdom. I don't mind skepticism towards televangelism, or honest questions of ministry methods, but when are the recriminations in this thread ever justified? So Osteen invited Pelosi to church. Oh no! I cast thee down to Hell, Joel Osteen! Reaching out to the lost, trying to love your fellow neighbor as yourself. What's a good Christian to do?!?
The politics and media pandering of Pelosi and the dems soil my shorts at times at well, but a healthy dose of any experience with loving Christians would help the kingdom of Heaven, not hurt it.
Especially the missing tooth on Joel.
Full Disclosure: As I said, I haven't made up my mind.
Are you saying that criticizing smarmy TV preachers scooping up widow's mites is anti-Christian? I must be on a rocket sled to Hell then, because I hate those dirty greedy bastards.
-ccm
By their fruits ye shall know them. That goes double for the "prophecy" loons.
-ccm
cf. the teachings of Jesus:
Luke 20:46 -- Be on guard against the scribes, who like to go around in long robes and love greetings in marketplaces, seats of honor in synagogues, and places of honor at banquets.
OTOH--Matthew 7:3 -- Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged; and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?
So, maybe I'd better just shut up and pray for him...
Cheers!
Actually, with the "doubt" part, I think it qualifies as a triple negative.
Dustbunny, I would suggest you start over from scratch. I sincerely can't tell whether you take the side of Mrs. O'Steen or not.
-ccm
Possibly another take is that a homosexual who had been in trouble for molesting young boys burrowed his way into Crouch's ministry.
And then set up a fake story to try to blackmail Crouch.
Since I wasn't there, I don't know.
Cheers!
A number of possibilities here, just to stir the pot:
1) Joel is fantastic in bed. (no need to fantasize)
2) She's frigid. (no fantasy about anything in bed)
3) She's queer. (no fantasy about any man in bed)
4) She's lying. (she knows a good story)
5) She's telling the truth. (she's happy where she is)
How one can tell, without being incredibly rude and nosy, is beyond me.
Cheers!
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