Posted on 12/20/2005 2:01:37 PM PST by Sonny M
That is fantastic. Keep the faith. I am not so worried about the quality of our college graduates, but of the education of the high school kids. Start them right early, yours is a precious position. Got to go now, my son is home, he just graduated. Early. Maybe I can pick up a pool game.
Metanoia is Greek for the ultimate eureka, a change of heart that results in a change of life. The vast majority of the word translated in the NT for repentence is metanoia, not metamelomae, for recognize the wrong and turn away.
I take that responsibility most seriously.
I.E. a engineering degree in china or india is more likely less then the US standard, and that would mean that india and chinas numbers are inflated, more over, that the idea of a big gap is a myth being perpetuated.
Agreed. I've come across many of these so-called engineers from India, China, Romania, etc. and the quality of education is just not to our standard.
Most of these folks are engineering technicians (3-year program) not real engineers. A mickey mouse community college calibre program is just not good enough for American business.
A big pet peeve of licensed PE's are folks who claim they are engineers but lack the proper qualifications. Thankfully employers know the game. They might hire these technicians but they are not paid as well or obtain good positions.
>The big money is made by the MBA's who exploit the engineers >and the lawyers who sue them.
Which is my the engineer doing his MBA is so common its a cliche. An engineer with an MBA has much greater earnings potential than a person with an easier undergrad degree with an MBA.
Also, law schools love engineering grads.
Yeah. Actually, withdrawing from the UN Outer Space Treaty and letting private persons and corporations claim outer space bodies as collateral for the purpose of mining and development would do something astonishing for establishing our lead for all time.
On a different tack, there was an article (Forbes or Money) about 17-20 years ago about the "brain drain of America." I'd suggest that Americans do not become complacent in our studies, education, creativity, and drive. The Chinese and Indians seemingly work much harder than we do in the education sector... and the manufacturing sector. Albeit they are capturing market due to low labour rates. This too will change as these countries mature in a capitlistic, free-enterprise market. That is my prediction.
There are different kinds of engineers. I was certified as a combat engineer after only twelve weeks of training in the Army, but it took me five years to earn an M.E.E. I suspect that some of those foreign "engineers" don't know Jack.
When I was a senior in college, my alma mater's mechanical engineering department was offering undergrads with GPA as low as 2.8 a free ride on tuition plus a stipend - if they were US citizens. It turns out many of their research grants were for defense contractors and the US government, and they required graduate students with US citizenship.
Most undergrads were US citizens (those that weren't had permanent residence; no one in my class came here just to go to school). Virtually all our graduate students were from India, China, and Turkey. I have nothing against most of the foreign grad students. Two of the Indian grad students who I was friendly with are newly-minted professors at other universities and are pursuing citizenship. However that was the exception rather than the rule! Most of the foreign students were there on the dime of their government or wealthy family members, and planned to return to their country of origin.
I, like many of my classmates, elected to enter the workforce before starting graduate school. For US citizens there are no visa issues for employers to deal with. A number of my classmates work for various defense contractors on projects requiring security clearances. H1Bs won't cut it for those. ;-) Considering that I had a job offer a full 6 months before graduation, with an employer who pays every penny of my educational expenses, I had little motivation to spend another few years as a poor graduate student. It was far more appealing to enter the workforce knowing that within 4 years I'd have my master's degree anyways, would gain real world engineering experience, and would be earning a good salary in the meantime.
So I'd agree - to a large extent our universities are educating foreign graduate students in engineering because they usually are self-supporting and don't require funding from the university. It was only when my school needed US citizens that they started offering tuition plus stipend to the majority of American undergrads.
Ok, I'm an engineer with 18years under my belt. And I disagree with you, and this is why
1. Have you looked at what passes for education in US schools? We have College students who have never heard of Calculus; while both India and China do this in Jr. High School.
2. US schools can't bend over far enough for the LOSERS in life. We glady graduate students who cannot read, who perform at a 4th grade level in Math, and barely a 6th grade in Science.
3. Our Culture is one of immediate gratification. Discipline is non-existant. This is NOT true for the Chinese and Indians.
4. Schools in India and China are geared to the TOP achievers. If you can't keep up, you can die on the street or work in a factory. There is REAL INCENTIVE to learn, to grow and to better yourself. This concept is totally alien to today's student.
Now, why is this important? Well, for one thing; we are importing talent with no dedication to this country. Think of it as hiring mercinaries who are paid to learn our best technology. These 'mercinaries' have NO loyalty to this country, and will take their pay and their skills back home with them in just a few years. What a cheap way for a poor country to improve their labor force!! Go to America, they will train you, they will pay you more than you can make at home. And when you come 'home', you will use what you have learned in the USA to compete against the USA.
And finally, Engineering is very HARD. Math, physics, design, software ... it's one of the harder degrees you can earn. And for busting your butt, you do not have job security, you do not get high pay, and the requirements placed on you to graduate with the engineering degree are higher than in almost any other area of study. Why bother? A business degree is far easier, the pay and job security are comparable; why would one go into the technical field? The incentive is GONE.
From SOCIAL STATUS point of view I agree with you that Engineers fair better in these countries. However Engineers in the US are still payed better than their counterpart in Germany and Japan, I know this since our company have branches in Japan and Western Europe, and our engineers in the US with make 25% to 30% more in salaries than our counterpart with same position in Western Europe and Japan. Also American Engineers have vastly more resources for R&D, and design than those in Western European and more than those Japan.
Of course it is not worth comparing our engineers salaries and access for R & D and design to those of China and India, it is a joke to do so, and that why every Chinese and Indian engineers ultimate dream is to come and work in the US.
From my business. Not a single Indian engineer we have have left. From the graduate engineering school I went to. All the foreign engineering students wanted to stay and work here. Most did not find a job so they were forced to go. Those who found a job are still working here.
As someone who recruits engineers I can categorically state there is no lack of jobs for engineers in the US. Competition to recruit good engineers is fierce.
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