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Dover Intelligent Design Decision Criticized as a Futile Attempt to Censor Science Education
Evolution News.org ^

Posted on 12/20/2005 12:12:16 PM PST by truthfinder9

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To: ndt
"It's funny how the Darwin Fundies in the trial never addressed the science that the ID supporters presented."

The court did address the defendants scientific claims and every witness for the defense repudiated their own sworn testimony in previous signed affidavits.

I think they did it because the trial wasn't going the way they thought it would so they recanted to avoid perjury charges. Behe is the standout example.

No wonder the DI didn't want this to go to court. It cut their wedge strategy off at the knees.

Now they will have to come up with a new idea. Look for Theistic Evolution to be the next DI gambit.
161 posted on 12/20/2005 7:47:24 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: Right Wing Professor

Your blog is interesting, but one sided. If I could find 700 more scientists, or 7,000, or 700,000, I bet you would attempt to put them down, too.

I used to think that there was a POSSIBILITY that God used evolution, but after reading so much about evolution, I came to realize that there are not facts to back it up - only more theories.

For instance:

1) What SPECIFIC scientific law states that one kind of creature can turn into another kind of creature?

2) What SPECIFIC scientific law states that nothing comes from something?


162 posted on 12/20/2005 7:50:15 PM PST by Sun (Hillary Clinton is pro-ILLEGAL immigration. Don't let her fool you. She has a D- /F immigr. rating.)
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To: beaver fever; truthfinder9

"It's funny how the Darwin Fundies in the trial never addressed the science that the ID supporters presented."

Whoops....

That was actually a snip I was quoting from "truthfinder9" in post 18. I'll ping him/her here so he/she sees it.


163 posted on 12/20/2005 7:53:05 PM PST by ndt
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To: GSlob

IDers have a great respect for REAL scientists - the ones who are free thinkers, and discover cures for horrible diseases, invent stuff that make our lives better, etc.

It is the scientists who are stuck in the past, that we have a problem with.

Not to say they are not nice people, but they have been brainwashed for so many years, that they forgot that scientists should be curious by nature, and look to NEW EVIDENCE.


164 posted on 12/20/2005 7:53:13 PM PST by Sun (Hillary Clinton is pro-ILLEGAL immigration. Don't let her fool you. She has a D- /F immigr. rating.)
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To: Siegfried The Red
"In science, facts are determined by evidence and experimentation, not by popular vote."

Science and Democracy, let the kids decide.

The can also vote on whether they're in favor of the Cosmological Constant or whether Black Holes are just a figment of Steven Hawking's imagination.

"I'm sorry professor I can't agree with you on Heisman's Uncertainty Principal. We took a vote on it in Highschool and the majority didn't support it."
165 posted on 12/20/2005 7:54:59 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: Dave S
So, what? You dismiss anything that might be discussed on Art Bell as automatically some fiction? I mean, Michio Kaku has been a frequent guest - do you dismiss string theory because Kaku has tried to explain it to the layman in this off-beat forum?

ID has some intellectually stimulating ideas in it. It would be good for kids to be exposed to. I think it makes biology much more interesting than evolutionary theory - it is sort of like the difference between the mechanical universe, and the quantum world, in the physical sciences.

166 posted on 12/20/2005 7:58:24 PM PST by GregoryFul
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To: Sun
1) What SPECIFIC scientific law states that one kind of creature can turn into another kind of creature?

Better question: what law says one can't?

What SPECIFIC scientific law states that nothing comes from something?

You've lost me.

167 posted on 12/20/2005 7:59:39 PM PST by Right Wing Professor (Liberals have hijacked science for long enough. Now it's our turn -- Tom Bethell)
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To: Sun

Well, I happen to be a scientist by training and occupation, working in the biotech field - and I have no use for IDers. Why, they couldn't even accept a loss of Dover case with class. The judge in Dover was absolutely correct: ID is theology, not science.


168 posted on 12/20/2005 8:08:28 PM PST by GSlob
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To: Salgak

Suppose a researcher finds that "junk" DNA encodes for expression of processes that can construct cognates of our cells' structures (carbon based) in silicon rich environments? That would be pretty exciting, don't you think? Wouldn't you think that would constitute proof that DNA was designed?


169 posted on 12/20/2005 8:08:45 PM PST by GregoryFul
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To: GSlob

Judge Jones showed his blatant bias - like THIS:

"Reaching well beyond the immediate legal questions before him, Judge Jones offered wide-ranging and sometimes angry comments denouncing intelligent design and praising Darwinian evolution."

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2005/12/dover_intelligent_design_decis.html

As an ACTIVIST judge usually does, Judge Jones made up his mind BEFORE he even heard the facts.


170 posted on 12/20/2005 8:13:08 PM PST by Sun (Hillary Clinton is pro-ILLEGAL immigration. Don't let her fool you. She has a D- /F immigr. rating.)
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To: Oztrich Boy
" Ain't nobody dumb enough in a position to appeal it."

It won't be appealed because the Creationist school board was thrown out.

The present board will decline to appeal and Dover will be over.

The Creationists will have to find another venue but they have a big fat precedent to overcome. They're going to have to re wrap the DI package. As I said before, look for Theistic Evolution to be the next bottle of snake oil.
171 posted on 12/20/2005 8:16:54 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: Right Wing Professor

>1) What SPECIFIC scientific law states that one kind of creature can turn into another kind of creature?

"Better question: what law says one can't?"

CIRCULAR REASONING?

>What SPECIFIC scientific law states that nothing comes from something?"

"You've lost me."

Don't know how else to say it. How could SOMETHING, like this glorious world that we live in, evolve from nothing?


172 posted on 12/20/2005 8:17:03 PM PST by Sun (Hillary Clinton is pro-ILLEGAL immigration. Don't let her fool you. She has a D- /F immigr. rating.)
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To: Sun
I have read the whole of his decision, and have not found anger in it, even where he catches that ex-boss of Dover School District [what's his name?] in lies. I would be angry for having several months of my life wasted on such stuff, but Judge Jones is an angel of patience. Why, he didn't even order the defendants to evolve.
173 posted on 12/20/2005 8:21:40 PM PST by GSlob
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To: GSlob

You don't have a problem with the fact that Judge Jones denounced ID and praised evo??

How can a biased judge be a fair judge?


174 posted on 12/20/2005 8:34:20 PM PST by Sun (Hillary Clinton is pro-ILLEGAL immigration. Don't let her fool you. She has a D- /F immigr. rating.)
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To: highball
Except for the fact that it was created specifically to try and sneak Creation Science past the Constitution.

Have you any proof of this assertion?

ID and evolution are not antithetical at all. ID proposes that DNA encodes processes that express coordinated (irreducibly complex) mechanisms that cope with a wide range of environmental stresses in a way that that is statistically incompatible with accidental arrangement. Environmental stresses do select the specific sequences of DNA that generate individuals of the species that can survive - it is just that the sequences encode expressions of interrelated complex processes and structures that accident could not have produced in the amount of time that we believe passed between the origin of a habitable Earth (liquid water on its surface) and the appearance of life.

175 posted on 12/20/2005 8:39:28 PM PST by GregoryFul
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To: Sun

No, I do not have any problem there. And learn to lose with class, otherwise it is unseemly.


176 posted on 12/20/2005 8:39:46 PM PST by GSlob
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To: Oztrich Boy

Actually, gravity is not understood at all!


177 posted on 12/20/2005 8:41:56 PM PST by GregoryFul
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To: GSlob

There is no class in giving up.


178 posted on 12/20/2005 8:42:19 PM PST by Sun (Hillary Clinton is pro-ILLEGAL immigration. Don't let her fool you. She has a D- /F immigr. rating.)
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To: GregoryFul
Actually, gravity is not understood at all!

I said there was a Nobel Prize going for the person who explained it

179 posted on 12/20/2005 8:52:04 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (so natural to mankind is intolerance in whatever they really care about - J S Mill)
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To: Sun
CIRCULAR REASONING?

Not at all. You're asking what law allows evolution. What law allows you to get up in the morning?

Don't know how else to say it. How could SOMETHING, like this glorious world that we live in, evolve from nothing?

It didn't evolve from nothing. It evolved from a world with all the necessary materials, and a source of energy (actually, several)

180 posted on 12/21/2005 5:04:02 AM PST by Right Wing Professor (Liberals have hijacked science for long enough. Now it's our turn -- Tom Bethell)
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