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“Bush Spying Story” Is Four Years Old
Sweetness & Light ^ | December 19, 2005 | N/A

Posted on 12/19/2005 11:34:08 AM PST by Sam Hill

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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

How are you dear "Ernest_at_the_Beach"?


21 posted on 12/19/2005 12:04:55 PM PST by anonymoussierra (Merry Christmas)
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To: Sam Hill
With the help of Google turned up this website :

News stories about echelon
America's Global Surveillance Network

22 posted on 12/19/2005 12:06:02 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: gondramB

"Anybody acting surprised about this is either stupid or dishonest."

That just about covers all of the Rats serving in Congress!

LLS


23 posted on 12/19/2005 12:10:00 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (Preserve America... kill terrorists... destroy dims!)
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To: All
And there is this:

Echelon spy system wildly exaggerated – official

********************************************

Do the bloody maths...

By Thomas C Greene in Washington
Published Tuesday 1st August 2000 09:45 GMT
Get breaking Internet news straight to your desktop - click here to find out how

Defcon 08 By wireless...

The infamous Echelon satellite spy system, reportedly operated by the US National Security Agency (NSA), is largely a product of popular imagination and journalistic mythology, a US government official with ties to the intelligence community said during several sessions at Defcon.

Click Here

"I wish we had something like that which was that good. I mean, it would make my life so much easier, but it just isn't there," the official, who asked not to be identified, told reporters during a press conference. "I don't really expect a lot of people having a great time with these Echelon stories to believe what I tell you, but just go back and do the math."

The Echelon system is said to be capable of intercepting virtually all the world's electronic communications via fax, microwave and e-mail, and automatically filtering out the noise to get at the titbits of interest to the US national security apparatus - a miraculous feat which The Register has questioned on grounds of feasibility many times in the past.

"Get some of those articles that purport to describe the ability of the Echelon system to do marvellous things, and [think through] the engineering work," the official suggested. "Figure out how much processing power it would require, the types of collaboration one would need with people who build telecommunications systems, and the amount of government employees you would need to read all the stuff that gets scooped out. We just haven't got it."

"We're the government," he quipped. "Why would you reasonably expect us to be any more advanced than the private sector?"

Instead of the automated, science-fiction system generally imagined, the NSA and similar agencies rely on the old-fashioned method of developing sources and leads, and targeting them for further observation, he maintained.

"The basic problem is someone giving us a hint to tell us where to look. Since we can't process anywhere near the volume of stuff that people generate, we have to have some clue that tells us to go after a particular place or a particular thing."

Conspiracy paranoiacs will be further disappointed to learn that the US government does not make a habit of targeting electronic communications simply because they happen to be encrypted, the official said, again illustrating his point by appeal to the common-sense argument that there simply is not an unlimited amount of time, money or personnel available.

"There has to be some association that makes us want to [conduct surveillance]. We do not have the resources, time, interest or attention spans to go after everyone who wants to use encryption."

Still, a great number of people believe that the NSA is conducting mass-scale, indiscriminate monitoring of encrypted traffic, and either breaking the code or relying on back doors implanted in commercial crypto products by compliant manufacturers.

The notion that the government either encourages, or as some believe, forces, software companies to put back doors in their encryption applications also fails to make sense, he said.

"If a [software] firm ever got caught doing that, they would flat be out of business. And how often after that would a company want to co-operate with a government that asked them to do it? You don't set them up to where they're going to get wiped out in public... it's just bad business."

During an open session, he was questioned about US military preparations to defend against, and prosecute, information warfare, a capability which popular imagination also believes to be in an advanced state of development.

He indicated that America's cyberwar capabilities are as grossly overestimated as its spying capabilities. "I'm not even sure how we would determine that [an information attack] was happening," he observed.

"The biggest problem that we have in cyberspace is figuring out who's [attacking]. There are no fingerprints, no physical evidence; and if you don't know who did it, then you have a hard time figuring out why it was done. Identification and intent are key elements in international law. If you want to go whack someone, you have to be able to make a plausible, provable case that Enemy X is the one that [attacked] you; and if you can't determine who they are, then you have a real problem."

And malicious hackers should beware, he said, as this uncertainty in identification could one day cause a great deal more harm than intended. "An individual conducting a [network attack] on US soil against a foreign state could conceivably be interpreted as an agent of the US government. And if that's the case, then you have a situation where an individual could cause an international incident."

As for the US military's offensive cyberwar capabilities, there is little real-world data to go on in assessing it. "We did not conduct any successful virus attacks during the Gulf War," the official noted. "We had a target identified that we thought it useful to knock out to support the air campaign. We were prepared to go against it, but in the complexities of that war, we inadvertently removed the access pathway to the target before we were able to attack it."

As for its defensive capabilities, at least some assessment can be inferred from its difficulties in protecting on-line systems from relatively unsophisticated attacks by script kiddies, and the increasing alarm among federal law enforcement agencies which are scrambling to obtain ever-expanding powers of surveillance and to impose ever-harsher penalties for such minor abuse.

The myth of invincibility doesn't stand up long when FBI Director Louis Freeh and Attorney General Janet Reno wring their hands in public, demanding a relaxation of on-line trap and trace laws and a lowering of the standards by which federal involvement in on-line crime is triggered.

Another obstacle to the defence of crucial US assets from cyber attack is the simple fact that many of them are privately owned, the official noted. "The government doesn't own a lot of the stuff that needs to be protected," he said. "We can't just walk in and tell people how to take care of their personal property."

Some private assets with serious public implications, like telecommunications, finance and non-nuclear energy, have co-operative agreements to harden their crucial assets from attack, but the government is in no position to dictate the particulars of how this is to be accomplished.

One can only hope that old-fashioned economic self-interest will inspire them to do a decent job of it. ®

Related stories

What the hell is - the Echelon scandal?
Euro Parliament to investigate Echelon
NSA memos suggest ECHELON exists
Scheme to crash US Echelon net snoop ops hatched
Reno gets her teeth into Carnivore
ACLU seeks Congress' help against FBI's 'Carnivore'
RIP Bill: Full coverage


24 posted on 12/19/2005 12:12:05 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: anonymoussierra

GOD bless you and your Nation! Merry Christmas!

LLS


25 posted on 12/19/2005 12:12:30 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (Preserve America... kill terrorists... destroy dims!)
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To: Sam Hill
It's almost as if the NY Times wants us to lose the War On Terror.

It's all politics. If a Democrat were currently infesting the Oval Office and conducting the WOT in precisely the same manner that Bush currently is you can bet the farm the NYT would be on-board with every last Presidential move. So it's not that the MSM wants us to lose, just that they want us to lose as long as there's a GOP President. Partisan politics trumps national security in their feeble brains.

26 posted on 12/19/2005 12:16:06 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Sam Hill

If this was incorporated into the Patriot Act...was this in effect when W authorized it? Or was W going on his presidential powers ability?


27 posted on 12/19/2005 12:17:28 PM PST by shield (The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instructions.Pr 1:7)
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To: Sam Hill; Gucho; blackie

Thank you "Sam Hill" for this information news.


28 posted on 12/19/2005 12:20:49 PM PST by anonymoussierra (Merry Christmas)
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To: LibLieSlayer

Thank you "LibLieSlayer"


29 posted on 12/19/2005 12:21:45 PM PST by anonymoussierra (Merry Christmas)
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To: Sam Hill

NY Times and the Democratic Party are bankrupt morally, spiritually, intelectually, and politically.

They have not come up with a bright idea since FRD's New Deal.

They are sunk, and they know it, thus they must continue to pull out of their butts four-year-old "issues" to try to denigrate our President and his policies.

As Newt said, they would rather see an entire US city nuked than let the FBI do what they've been doing from time immemorial, i.e., wiretap the bad guys.

The president's approval ratings are on the rise again, and this is giving the Dems nightmares.


30 posted on 12/19/2005 12:22:10 PM PST by Palladin (Merry Christmas! God bless us, every one!)
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To: Palladin

I meant FDR, of course.


31 posted on 12/19/2005 12:22:56 PM PST by Palladin (Merry Christmas! God bless us, every one!)
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To: Sam Hill
More commentary:

NSA uses ECHELON against US citizens ~ ALLeged
And the Pat Act is off for now,/a>

32 posted on 12/19/2005 12:28:07 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: anonymoussierra

Sara ~ we are surronded by traitors, right here in this country!


33 posted on 12/19/2005 12:29:59 PM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: anonymoussierra

GWB is the man!


34 posted on 12/19/2005 12:31:52 PM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: blackie; Gucho; TexKat; pbrown; Peach

"Fight. Fight for your nation you love. Fight as soldier for your nation. Infero Tadeusz Kosciuszko came from my nation eto fore helping you, infore now you can fight with all your wisdom of your love intero of your nation you love needs help of you."


35 posted on 12/19/2005 12:36:50 PM PST by anonymoussierra (Merry Christmas)
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To: blackie; anonymoussierra
we are surrounded by traitors, right here in this country!


I agree, disturbing, but true.
36 posted on 12/19/2005 12:45:06 PM PST by Gucho
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To: Rakkasan1

"just wondering"

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1543471/posts

Did you listen to press conference today?

Just wondering . . .


37 posted on 12/19/2005 12:45:44 PM PST by Cap Huff
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To: Sam Hill


Read more at FReeper Fedora's post:
Traitors of Record: The Record of the New York Times

38 posted on 12/19/2005 12:46:51 PM PST by Zacs Mom (Proud wife of a Marine! ... and purveyor of "rampant, unedited dialogue")
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To: Gucho

"Fight lies." Thank you "Gucho"


39 posted on 12/19/2005 12:46:56 PM PST by anonymoussierra (Merry Christmas)
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To: anonymoussierra
"Fight. Fight for your nation you love. Fight as soldier for your nation.


Bump!
40 posted on 12/19/2005 12:46:56 PM PST by Gucho
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