Posted on 12/18/2005 7:27:25 AM PST by Kjobs
SANTA MONICA, Calif., Dec. 17 (UPI) -- The National Association of Theater Owners wants the Federal Communications Commission to allow the blocking of cell phone signals in theaters.
John Fithian, the president of the trade organization, told the Los Angeles Times theater owners "have to block rude behavior" as the industry tries to come up with ways to bring people back to the cinemas.
Fithian said his group would petition the FCC for permission to block cell phone signals within movie theaters.
Some theaters already have no cell phone policies and ask moviegoers to check their phones at the door, Fithian said.
The Cellular Telecommunications and Internet Association -- a Washington-based cell phone lobby that is also known as CTIA-the Wireless Association -- said it would fight any move to block cell phone signals.
(Excerpt) Read more at upi.com ...
"The surest sign that you can't make a good argument, is that you pre-emptively call anyone who disagrees "nonsensical". "
Believe me, there was nothing at all pre-emptive about this statement.
I'm not sure we are even arguing. I'm just telling you what is.....there is not really any use arguing points of fact, I'm just amazed that you continue to do so.
Good point. It seems insane that they should have to hire armed security guards simply to deal with rudeness!
Well, I don't think the average concert-goer would want to attend a performance with preschoolers and so on :-).
"The principle is so trivial, that you must know it works. Either you're lying on purpose, or you're not really an RF engineer. Which is it?"
The principle is not trivial at all. It's impossible, unless you encase a building in mu-metal.
As to me being an RF engineer, would you even know the difference?
"electronic warfare is an art and, trust me, if we can walk a top of the line RADAR tracking system off an aircraft, keeping joe-blow off the cell phone while allowing a physician to use his is a piece of cake"
You are very correct, however, be prepared for your ticket price to increase significantly for the privilege of KNOWING that someone won't recieve a socially unacceptable phone call during your show!
I never thought we'd see the ECM/ECCM cycle in consumer electronics, but these are crazy times!
It would turn out like handicap parking permits. Everyone would be exempt.
The principle is the inverse square law, moron. If the jamming signal's power is insufficient to overcome the cellular signal, the phone will work. The jamming power can be reduced as low as desired, producing a bubble of any desired radius. That's why, for example, the range of a wireless device can be calculated.
To proceed empirically, it suffices to stand someone with a cellphone inside the wall, and someone else with a cellphone outside the wall. The transmitting power and antenna position can then be adjusted until one phone works and the other doesn't. Of course there's an added buffer zone, between the building and the sidewalk.
You are making the disingenuous statement that the field strength doesn't fall to zero, unless the walls are shielded. That's completely irrelevant, and if you're an actual engineer you know that. It doesn't speak well of your honesty, though.
As to me being an RF engineer, would you even know the difference?
My PhD is in mathematics, not engineering, but I've seen an engineer or two.
I am sitting in a cell phone proof building as we speak. No signals can be received inside, at all. AM doesn't work either, I do however receive FM. Top of the line government structure?.......No. U.S. Steel metal barn in the shape of a quonset hut, 42'X 36', 17' high, I store my tractor and tools and have my shop in here, I also have a landline for the Internet...NO cell phone calls at all.....am I breaking the law?
I went to our dollar movies once. Never again.
LOL! True. I'm not getting on your case so much as just keeping the debate going. I have to call mom now, so regards and Merry Christmas....this is a land line you know...
"My PhD is in mathematics, not engineering, but I've seen an engineer or two."
Your PhD, as you have so amply proven, does not exempt you from not knowing what you are talking about, nor does it insulate you from being wrong.
"The principle is the inverse square law, moron. If the jamming signal's power is insufficient to overcome the cellular signal, the phone will work. The jamming power can be reduced as low as desired, producing a bubble of any desired radius."
Ok, I'll explain this to you in terms that hopefully, even a PHD in mathematics can understand:
There is no uniform "bubble" that you can create. Cellphone signals originate from many different directions, on many different frequencies. There is no controlling the bubble and maintaining consistent control over who get's to talk and who doesn't. Cellphone systems also dynamically allocate power - so you'd have to do the same.
The principle is "inverse square" in a free-space vaccuum. It is very different in a real-world propagation environment, and anything but predictable to a high-degree of accuracy.
But really, the bottom line is, Mr. PhD, is that jammers are illegal and continue to be illegal, so you cannot even attempt it without running afoul of proper and reasonable regulation of radio spectrum.
Just give it up, will you? you are wrong, you can't make 2+2 = 5 no matter how immoral you feel it is that this isn't true.
Irrelevant; it is more than possible to prevent phones from working inside the theater itself, while still working outside the building. You know it, so your strenuous attempts to claim otherwise don't speak well of your integrity.
But really, the bottom line is, Mr. PhD, is that jammers are illegal and continue to be illegal...
The subject of the thread is whether they should be illegal; everyone knows they are. Since you've run out of arguments, you fall back on might making right. Impressive.
".....U.S. Steel metal barn in the shape of a quonset hut, 42'X 36', 17' high, I store my tractor and tools and have my shop in here, I also have a landline for the Internet...NO cell phone calls at all.....am I breaking the law?"
You should call the FCC, just to make sure! ;^)
"Irrelevant; it is more than possible to prevent phones from working inside the theater itself, while still working outside the building"
No....and Yes. You are oversimplifying, and that's the problem with things like this. You just don't understand the subject enough to grasp the subtleties, as you have so greatly shown.
You've come up with hair-brained scenarios, technical approaches, and even tried to throw credentials around, and you are still wrong.
And what you advocate is, and will remain forever, illegal in the United States - whether you think it should or should not be so. It's not an argument of "might makes right", it's an argument that users of such jammers have no idea how to (or whether to) deploy these things, even if it were allowed and reasonable to do so. It is neither.
Now will you give up, please? I don't want to be accused of running from a good debate, but really, this one is so one-sided as to not even be amusing anymore.
the power to interrupt people's cellphone conversationsYou claim to have read this thread but in fact you have read and understood: nothing.
Repeat after me: on the theater's private property.
Again, with feeling: on the theater's private property.
Nobody is talking about doing anything to you, so quell your vaunting paranoia. It's on the theater's private property that we're discussing here, and that only involves you if you decide to go on the theater's private property.
Try to wrap your mind around the concept. It's doable.
Nice backpedal. The simple fact is that it's perfectly possible to block cell calls in the theaters themselves, without blocking cell calls outside the building. It's not even particularly hard. The only "subtlety" is in accomplising it at the least cost; the obvious solution is also the highest cost: put jammers in the arm of every seat, with a range of ~4' (plus a couple near doors and such).
You've come up with hair-brained scenarios, technical approaches, and even tried to throw credentials around, and you are still wrong.
You have failed to produce a single example of an error on my part. I invite you to do so.
And what you advocate is, and will remain forever, illegal in the United States...
Might makes right. We heard you already, Niccolo.
But I suggest that "forever" is a really ridiculous word to use as regards the United States government. You don't know whether it will even exist in 500 years, let alone what its policy will be on short-range RF devices at that time.
...this one is so one-sided as to not even be amusing anymore.
You do a good job of protesting your rightness even after being proven wrong. What other tricks do you do? Can you balance a penny on your nose while bleating that you're right right right?
jam a doctor's cell phone and preventing him from receiving an emergency callYup. It happens all the time, in hospitals all over America.
A floor nurse rushes up to the head nurse and says: the patient in room 101 is having a seizure.
The head nurse says: quick, call the doctor at the movie theater and get him here right away.
Yup. That's how medicine works in America. Every day. Believe me when I tell you.
Wow. Nothing but good experiences here.
"Try to wrap your mind around the concept. It's doable"
Sam, the theater doesn't own the spectrum it purports to use - its someone else's (the spectrum licensees) property. I'm sure your mind is wrapped around that concept. It is also very likely that the jamming signals will not be limited to the premises of said private property - and that's the other problem.
Theaters can control the problem directly - by refusing to allow patrons with cellphones to enter, or by asking them to leave if they use a cellphone in any way that they deem unacceptable. The rest is just plain manners.
Um, you realize that passive shielding is in fact legal? By the above ridiculous argument, it should not be.
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