Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Appeals judges see errors in evolution sticker ruling
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 12-15-2005 | Bill Rankin

Posted on 12/15/2005 12:36:53 PM PST by JeffAtlanta

Three federal appeals court judges today indicated a lower court judge got key facts wrong in declaring unconstitutional an evolution disclaimer sticker put in Cobb County science books.

During oral arguments, all members of the federal appeals court panel noted that U.S. District Court Judge Clarence Cooper made incorrect findings as the basis for his decision that the stickers violated the First Amendment by endorsing a religious viewpoint.

Judge Ed Carnes dominated much of the 40-minute arguments by tearing apart sections of Cooper's January ruling that ordered the stickers, which declared evolution "a theory, not a fact," removed from almost 35,000 middle- and high-school science textbooks.

"The court gives two bases for its findings and they're absolutely wrong," Carnes told Atlanta lawyer Jeffrey Bramlett, who argued on behalf of five parents who sued the school board to get the stickers removed.

At the end of the arguments, Carnes took the highly unusual step of calling Bramlett back up to the podium and suggested he may have mislead the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in his legal brief filed with the court.

Judge Frank Hull also noted that Cooper said the sticker misleads students even though there was no evidence to support that position.

"The order's problematic, you'd agree with that, in the way that it was written?" Hull asked Bramlett, who had little time to argue his position.

Judge Bill Pryor also noted that Cooper relied on facts that "are just contradicted by the record."

(Excerpt) Read more at ajc.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Georgia
KEYWORDS: crevo; ruling; scienceeducation; textbooks
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 161-167 next last
Article is excerpted...

Looks like we might be taking a step backward in Georgia.

1 posted on 12/15/2005 12:36:54 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry

Ping worthy?


2 posted on 12/15/2005 12:37:20 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JeffAtlanta; Junior
Ping worthy?

Interesting, but this stuff isn't really news. Judges often rip into lawyers during oral argument, but that doesn't necessarily forecast how they'll rule. (It may in this case, but we just don't know.) I'd rather wait for the final opinion. This is just titillation. Besides, we had a thread on the sticker case yesterday: Georgia court to hear evolution disclaimer arguments.

3 posted on 12/15/2005 12:44:02 PM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided luddites ...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: JeffAtlanta

Looks like a victory for the truth. Another out-of-control judge meddling in the legislature looks like he's setting up for a smack-down.


4 posted on 12/15/2005 12:44:23 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CharlesWayneCT

I think you're right!


5 posted on 12/15/2005 12:45:54 PM PST by puroresu (Conservatism is an observation; Liberalism is an ideology)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: JeffAtlanta

That is, unless you believe that part of the constitutional duty of judges in our system of government is to protect someone's idea of science from "meddling" by the people's legislature.

Whether you think the legislature should have put stickers in the books or not, you should reject the notion that evolution is a constitutionally protected teaching.


6 posted on 12/15/2005 12:46:01 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JeffAtlanta
Looks like we might be taking a step backward in Georgia.

Allowing a fact to be added is a step backwards? The stickers never endorsed religion, creationism, or ID, they just pointed out that evolution is a theory.

7 posted on 12/15/2005 12:47:56 PM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JeffAtlanta

Evolution is, indeed, a theory, and not a fact.


8 posted on 12/15/2005 12:49:39 PM PST by RoadTest (Religion never saved a soul - that's Jesus' job.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JeffAtlanta
***Looks like we might be taking a step backward in Georgia.***

Not necessarily.

What I get out of this is that another godless Clinton stooge, 'judge' Clarence Cooper, got spanked good for making stuff up, i.e. not following the facts, all in order to impose his personal views on society.

9 posted on 12/15/2005 12:51:39 PM PST by Condor51 (Leftists are moral and intellectual parasites - Standing Wolf)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CharlesWayneCT

#####Whether you think the legislature should have put stickers in the books or not, you should reject the notion that evolution is a constitutionally protected teaching.#####


Actually, they're claiming it's constitutionally mandated. The theory of evolution is constitutionally protected, it just isn't constitutionally required that we all believe it, no matter what the ACLU may think. Nor is it constitutionally guaranteed a protected status in which it's raised to the level of state decreed dogma.


10 posted on 12/15/2005 12:52:59 PM PST by puroresu (Conservatism is an observation; Liberalism is an ideology)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: JeffAtlanta
backwards, or forwards?

Evolution is a theory. We have truth in advertising and fraud laws. The FDA will not allow vitamin or food supplement companies to make claims that are not substantiated, and so on. How can the theory of evolution be allowed to be stated as fact, when in fact it is just a theory?

Do the advocates of evolution try to have it both ways? Like light, which is manifest as a particle and a wave at the very same time, can evolution be both a theory and a fact simultaneously? I think not. Unlike light, it must either be theory or it is a fact; it cannot be both.

Supporters insist it is a fact. If you google "theory of evolution" you get 49 million hits. At what point of evidence was this theory established as a fact? I know of none. Laughingly, even the supporters themselves commonly refer to it as a theory.

So why all this fuss about just being honest about it in our dealings with young students? It is about denying that there just might be a Creator. The intensity with which evolutionary supporters deny that tells us far more about them then about their idea of fact or theory. Indeed, it seems they will move heaven and earth to avoid that possibility. Or maybe it would be better put that they are hell bent on it.
12 posted on 12/15/2005 1:04:52 PM PST by theBuckwheat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JeffAtlanta
Congress could put a stop to all this idiocy by removing jurisdiction of the federal courts to review school science curricula. They have no business sticking their noses in any of this.
13 posted on 12/15/2005 1:48:25 PM PST by inquest (If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: trebb
The stickers never endorsed religion, creationism, or ID, they just pointed out that evolution is a theory.

That's fairly disingenuous, so...who asked to put the stickers there in the first place? lol

One novel version of Intelligent Design my wife showed me last night was the push to teach that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. ( http://www.venganza.org/ ) Quite humorous slant on the whole "debate" actually.

14 posted on 12/15/2005 2:41:28 PM PST by mancogasuki
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: mancogasuki

"One novel version of Intelligent Design my wife showed me last night was the push to teach that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe."

How do you know the Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't create the universe? If you know he didn't, then you must know who did? Where did you get this knowledge? How do you know what you know?


15 posted on 12/15/2005 2:59:48 PM PST by vigilo (Everything I needed to know about George Bush and the Republican Party I learned from CFR.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: vigilo
"How do you know the Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't create the universe? If you know he didn't, then you must know who did? Where did you get this knowledge? How do you know what you know?"

Exactly!

My take is that I have absolutely no clue about any of that stuff, let alone the capacity to prove it. ;-)

16 posted on 12/15/2005 3:04:52 PM PST by mancogasuki
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: RoadTest

That's not really a good defense of ID or creationism. There are stronger ones.


17 posted on 12/15/2005 3:06:50 PM PST by Theo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: trebb

According to the Executive Derector of the Southeastern Legal Foundation, the stickers were "Christian expression"


18 posted on 12/15/2005 3:51:53 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (so natural to mankind is intolerance in whatever they really care about - J S Mill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: JeffAtlanta
No Jeff. We, Americans who believe in this constitutional republic, are taking a step forward.

This wasn't even close. No surprise here that this judge got smacked dwon hard.

19 posted on 12/15/2005 4:12:22 PM PST by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoadTest
Evolution is, indeed, a theory, and not a fact.

Evolution is a fact, as evidenced by the overwhelming fossil record. The Theory of Evolution is a theory of how evolution happens.

Evolution as Fact and Theory by Stephen Jay Gould

20 posted on 12/15/2005 4:13:31 PM PST by MRMEAN (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 161-167 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson