Posted on 12/15/2005 12:36:53 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
Three federal appeals court judges today indicated a lower court judge got key facts wrong in declaring unconstitutional an evolution disclaimer sticker put in Cobb County science books.
During oral arguments, all members of the federal appeals court panel noted that U.S. District Court Judge Clarence Cooper made incorrect findings as the basis for his decision that the stickers violated the First Amendment by endorsing a religious viewpoint.
Judge Ed Carnes dominated much of the 40-minute arguments by tearing apart sections of Cooper's January ruling that ordered the stickers, which declared evolution "a theory, not a fact," removed from almost 35,000 middle- and high-school science textbooks.
"The court gives two bases for its findings and they're absolutely wrong," Carnes told Atlanta lawyer Jeffrey Bramlett, who argued on behalf of five parents who sued the school board to get the stickers removed.
At the end of the arguments, Carnes took the highly unusual step of calling Bramlett back up to the podium and suggested he may have mislead the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in his legal brief filed with the court.
Judge Frank Hull also noted that Cooper said the sticker misleads students even though there was no evidence to support that position.
"The order's problematic, you'd agree with that, in the way that it was written?" Hull asked Bramlett, who had little time to argue his position.
Judge Bill Pryor also noted that Cooper relied on facts that "are just contradicted by the record."
(Excerpt) Read more at ajc.com ...
Looks like we might be taking a step backward in Georgia.
Ping worthy?
Interesting, but this stuff isn't really news. Judges often rip into lawyers during oral argument, but that doesn't necessarily forecast how they'll rule. (It may in this case, but we just don't know.) I'd rather wait for the final opinion. This is just titillation. Besides, we had a thread on the sticker case yesterday: Georgia court to hear evolution disclaimer arguments.
Looks like a victory for the truth. Another out-of-control judge meddling in the legislature looks like he's setting up for a smack-down.
I think you're right!
That is, unless you believe that part of the constitutional duty of judges in our system of government is to protect someone's idea of science from "meddling" by the people's legislature.
Whether you think the legislature should have put stickers in the books or not, you should reject the notion that evolution is a constitutionally protected teaching.
Allowing a fact to be added is a step backwards? The stickers never endorsed religion, creationism, or ID, they just pointed out that evolution is a theory.
Evolution is, indeed, a theory, and not a fact.
Not necessarily.
What I get out of this is that another godless Clinton stooge, 'judge' Clarence Cooper, got spanked good for making stuff up, i.e. not following the facts, all in order to impose his personal views on society.
#####Whether you think the legislature should have put stickers in the books or not, you should reject the notion that evolution is a constitutionally protected teaching.#####
Actually, they're claiming it's constitutionally mandated. The theory of evolution is constitutionally protected, it just isn't constitutionally required that we all believe it, no matter what the ACLU may think. Nor is it constitutionally guaranteed a protected status in which it's raised to the level of state decreed dogma.
That's fairly disingenuous, so...who asked to put the stickers there in the first place? lol
One novel version of Intelligent Design my wife showed me last night was the push to teach that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. ( http://www.venganza.org/ ) Quite humorous slant on the whole "debate" actually.
"One novel version of Intelligent Design my wife showed me last night was the push to teach that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe."
How do you know the Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't create the universe? If you know he didn't, then you must know who did? Where did you get this knowledge? How do you know what you know?
Exactly!
My take is that I have absolutely no clue about any of that stuff, let alone the capacity to prove it. ;-)
That's not really a good defense of ID or creationism. There are stronger ones.
According to the Executive Derector of the Southeastern Legal Foundation, the stickers were "Christian expression"
This wasn't even close. No surprise here that this judge got smacked dwon hard.
Evolution is a fact, as evidenced by the overwhelming fossil record. The Theory of Evolution is a theory of how evolution happens.
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