Mark Steyn: O come, all ye faithless

The Spectator (U.K.) ^ | 12/17/05 | Mark Steyn

[HOTTIEBOY]

I do realize that according to the gospel, no one is without sin accept for Jesus and no one is as righteous in the eyes of God as Jesus. I have read the bible.

[ModelBreaker]

Actually, you've got that exactly backwards. It is an idea that -- outside of very small groups, anyway -- cannot be translated into a way of life.

I disagree. Communism translates easily and consistently into a 'way of life.' It's just that the actual way of life to which it translates is 180 degrees different than the way of life it professes to bring about.

[SoothingDave]

If people live their entire lives in the name of Christ but behave in a way that only marginally misses righteousness in the eyes of God, they may as well have raped and murdered their whole lives because they are meeting the same fate.

"that Christians are to emulate Jesus."

That is what I meant when I said "righteous in the eyes of God"

You don't understand. A Christian who fails to acheive perfect righteousness is not condemed to hell, which is what would happen to an unrepentent murderer/rapist. So your statement above is not true. The Christian is not "meeting the same fate." Depending on their particular flavor, Christians believe either that Christ's righteousness is accounted as the Christian's at the time of judgment (Protestant) or that Christ's righteousness actually makes the Christian righteous through sacraments and good deeds (Catholic).

SD

[Slings and Arrows]

My mistake - it's not Exodus, it's a Midrash. See here.

[TChad]

How does he do it?

I've wondered the same thing. How does he combine such extraordinary clarity of thought and expression with humor, street smarts, and yet maintain a volume of output that justifies his claim that he is a "one man global content provider"?

It's probably just immense talent combined with very hard work.

I'll bet that he has caused some aspiring conservative pundits to have serious doubts about their own abilities. I've never read a liberal pundit who is even in Steyn's league.

[r9etb]

I disagree. Communism translates easily and consistently into a 'way of life.' It's just that the actual way of life to which it translates is 180 degrees different than the way of life it professes to bring about.

LOL! I guess that's one way of putting it....

The point is, that it could only be an "idea," precisely for the reason you point out: Communism is based not how people really are, but rather on how certain people think they ought to be.

We know it's at root an idea because the fundamental basis of the system can be summed up by "If everyone would just... (whatever)." Communism isn't alone in this, of course -- ideological movements share this characteristic.

The problem always comes when people don't "just".

[r9etb]

It's probably just immense talent combined with very hard work.

Sorta like the Bach of punditry?

[Rummyfan]

Thanks Pokey! Nietzsche correctly predicted that the so-called death of God would free man to inflict the most grievous horrors on his fellow man. Witness National Socialism and Communism in the twentieth century.

[HOTTIEBOY]

"Christians believe either that Christ's righteousness is accounted as the Christian's at the time of judgment (Protestant) or that Christ's righteousness actually makes the Christian righteous through sacraments and good deeds (Catholic)."

That is exactly what I wanted you to say.
Let's examine the logic behind that statement. Not to say that I don't believe it because after all it is completely true.

If someone belongs to a group, (lets say Catholics) as Gods creations why are his good deeds good enough to get him into heaven, whereas an equal creation of God (a Protestant) will not enter the kingdom under these terms. The Protestant must repent. That makes no sense.

[Rummyfan]

This modest thought provoked Paul Z. Myers, professor of biology at the University of Minnesota, into paroxysms of scorn: Steyn, he scoffed, ‘must not possess a gut populated by intestinal bacteria. We are at their mercy; without them, we suffer horribly for a while and die.... He must not have any wooden furniture in his home, or plastic ...made from the carbon left by ancient forests.... It’s a good thing he doesn’t eat, or he’d have to excrete — without any bacteria or fungi or nematodes or flatworms, the shit would just pile up (this would explain his written output, though).’

Oh dear. All I was doing was making a simple point about the scale of man’s domination, and all Professor Myers’s demolition does is confirm it. My intestinal bacteria may indeed be doing a swell job, but living in my gut isn’t exactly a beach house at Malibu. Yes, I’ve got wooden furniture. I live in the Great North Woods and the house and practically everything in it is made from those woods. But I sit on the chair, the chair doesn’t sit on me. And as for my excreta and the hard-working nematode, who gets the better end of that deal?

ROTFLMAO!!!! Responders to Steyn beware!

[pgyanke]

Interesting...

[alwaysconservative]

Thanks for the ping, Pokey!

[Rummyfan]

Lord, I hate that song!!!!

[Slings and Arrows]

Actually, from this Jew's perspective it means that, one way or another, we're all going to need a lot of forgiveness. G-d, thankfully, is more than adequate in that department.

[gridlock]

Wanna have fun... Imagine Mark Steyn being read by Peter O'Toole as Henry II.

[pgyanke]

If someone belongs to a group, (lets say Catholics) as Gods creations why are his good deeds good enough to get him into heaven, whereas an equal creation of God (a Protestant) will not enter the kingdom under these terms. The Protestant must repent. That makes no sense.

No, it doesn't make sense. That's because you are coming at it through a faulty premise (strawman). Catholics don't believe we will get into Heaven because of our good works. We believe, as all Christians believe, we will get to Heaven because of Christ's sacrifice. However, we are still human. We discipline the flesh to the will of the Father through our works because the the flesh is weak.

Read the Book of James... a book largely ignored by most Protestants I encounter. We are not justified by our works but by our faith. We have an empty faith, though, if it doesn't include works.

[Rummyfan]

It seems not a few left progressives have problems with narcissism and solipsistic thinking.... It's all about "me, me, me!!!" You can't build a civil society out of garbage like that. FWIW

[Rummyfan]

It seems not a few left progressives have problems with narcissism and solipsistic thinking.... It's all about "me, me, me!!!" You can't build a civil society out of garbage like that. FWIW

Exactly! Malignant narcissism Tammy Bruce calls it. Ultimately it destoys the society in which it exists.

[HOTTIEBOY]

I can understand what you say. Most people know more about a particular religion than I do so I will not argue the details.
What does not make sense to me is why certain things are considered divine in some religions and other thing are divine in other religions. You all say in the end that everyone meets (or doesn't meet) with God in the end, but which group makes it. Obviously every group thinks their beliefs will get them into heaven, but which ones actually do?

[AmishDude]

Not to mention the distinctly Judeao-Christian idea that individuals matter as individuals -- which just happens to be the basis for what's now called Western Civilization....

Absolutely! And the heart of that is individual responsibility.