Posted on 12/13/2005 8:34:28 PM PST by tbird5
The renowned biologist talks about intelligent design, dishonest Christians, and why God is no better than an imaginary friend.
British biologist Richard Dawkins has made a name for himself defending evolution and fighting what he sees as religiously motivated attacks on science. Dr. Dawkins sat down with Beliefnet at the World Congress of Secular Humanism, where his keynote address focused on intelligent design.
You're concerned about the state of education, especially science education. If you were able to teach every person, what would you want people to believe?
I would want them to believe whatever evidence leads them to; I would want them to look at the evidence, judge it on its merits, not accept things because of internal revelation or faith, but purely on the basis of evidence.
Not everybody can evaluate all evidence; we can’t evaluate the evidence for quantum physics. So it does have to be a certain amount of taking things on trust. I have to take what physicists say on trust, for example, because I'm a biologist. But science [has] a system of appraisal, of peer review, so that I trust the physics community to get their act together in a way that I know from the inside. I wish people would put their trust in evidence, not in faith, revelation, tradition, or authority.
(Excerpt) Read more at beliefnet.com ...
In your opinion, did evolution occur with or without God's guidance?
I'm not asking for proof, just your personal opinion if you feel comfortable sharing it. I'll be glad to share mine if you wish!
I believe in God. My evidence? My wife was dianosed with a lump in breast. In one weeks time, she was to have a biopsy. I prayed like I never prayed before, and she was on the prayer list of many people at the church. The day she went in for her biopsy, no lump. That was back in 98. I believed in God before that and really believe in Him after that.
So, you are predicting that science will somehow confirm the Bible and that somehow, to paraphrase Rodney King, we'll all just get along. But there are countless religious or sacred accounts of Creation, which, by the way, as many here have pointed out, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION!!!!!!
An intelligent response. Thanks!
I still have doubts about the theory of evolution. I wouldn't say that it absolutely isn't true, but I don't feel it's a settled issue. I don't know for a fact, for example, that you and I are descended from single celled organisms. We have very limited knowledge of the universe at this point. It bothers me that there seems to be a sort of "zeitgeistism" among some of the evolutionists. Basically, an assertion that since evolution is the currently prevailing theory about our origins, that someone must really be stupid not to accept it. Scienfically minded people who have no problem accepting that current theories about gravity or the origin of galaxies may be eventually overturned can get quite angry at the suggestion that evolutionary theory may someday likewise be overturned. It seems to be a theory that cannot be questioned without bringing wrath down upon one's head!
I agree fully with you that it's possible to be a Christian and still believe in the theory of evolution. In the debates that occur around here on this subject, we're often told that. However, it would seem to me that if one wanted to convince Christians to consider the theory of evolution, bashing them like Dawkins does isn't the way to do it. I appreciate your disagreement with him on this issue. Some of the evolutionists here bash and condescend toward Christians even as they're assuring us we can be both Christians and evolutionists. Not a wise tactic. Dawkins seems to be someone who is quite intelligent but almost completely lacking in wisdom.
Yes. The Bible is Truth and so anything that science discovers that's true must agree. You can't have two differing views on something that are both true.
If it appears that that is the case, then there is a problem with the interpretation of one or the other.
I'm not sure why you're engaging people in fruitless conversations about it.
The Truth of God's Word stands outside, independent and in authority above man's "truth filter" and individual interpretation.Biblical Truth is not relative, nor is it impacted by time.
I agree.But each man's ability to percieve the Truth will vary.
Using an extreme example to illustrate, Mr X may be a very healthy, very intelligent, very alert person. In fact, he may have a refined, expanded heart and a wide open mind to the degree that he could be called a saint. Mr Y may be physically unhealthy, mentally ill, nearly mentally retarded, very tired, with a cramped and miserable heart and mind from poor education and abuse as a child. I find it easy to imagine Mr X reading the Bible and being overtaken with gratitude, commiting his life from that point on to devotion to the Lord. I can also imagine that Mr Y might read the same scripture and dismiss it out of hand as a well-meaning fairy tale. If he's sufficiently dull, he might even think he's reading the phone book. Most people will fall somewhere between Mr X and Mr Y.
My point is, it is unavoidable that we each see according to who we are, though, as you say, the Truth itself does not change. I raise this point because whenever I ask this question, many people will reply that there is no reason to doubt, as the Bible is perfectly clear. I'm sorry, but what is perfectly clear to one man may not be to another, and I'm not going to accept someone's reading just beacuse he asserts to me that he's right.
There is historical documentation, manuscripts and copies that show that the Bible we have today, including Jesus's words, is significantly, almost perfectly, accurate.
I don't see why I should accept an interpretation of the Bible because it is popular, either. Widely accepted ideas are wrong all the time. Without Jesus being here to correct or affirm my views, I can only give it my own best effort at understanding, as we all do.
We can only know God and become familiar with Him by studying His Word....not by pondering in our fallible minds about how we perceive God.
Our fallible minds (and hearts) are all we have, and they were given by God. I'm trying to understand the Word. I brought in points about perception because I'm being asked to accept other's perceptions.
Do you have a specific verse/verses that you are interpreting that suggests that unbelieving sinners get a chance to repent at the Judgement Seat of Christ? Or are you just making an unfounded statement based on how you want to believe salvation and judgement work? (Please cite specific passages.)
No, I can't cite any verses. I'm making a statement based on my best understanding of the concept of eternal damnation. It's not based on some kind of wishful thinking. I just honestly don't see how an eternal punishment could be given for an offense that happens in the blink of an eye, relative to the scale of all time. Why would God not accept repentance after a person's physical death?
My best speculation is that the soul continues to evolve after we die, and that turning to God is possible for it at any time. Until it does, it is hell. Obviously, it's not possible for a specific Mr X to survive death, that body is gone, and in that sense that person is doomed for eternity. But if his soul lives, I cannot see God not accepting it when it turns to Him. I know what the Bible seems to say on this to many people. I find it easier to understand that that is a wrong interpretation than to understand that God could, apparently be infintely cruel.
I'm out of time so I can't respond line by line to the rest of your post, but I appreciate the scripture quotes.
I know that many will find my thinking on this to be vain, worldly, speculation, used as an attempt to deny the Word of God. I don't think I'm denying anything or Anyone. I just feel it would be sinful to turn off my God given brain.
You are right! God's ways are not ours, and His thoughts are not ours.
Accepted. But does that mean we should not try to understand? And if we don't try, on what basis do we accept His word?
That's a similiar read on it.
Okay, some hebrew translated as "eternity" mean "forever in time", others have the sense of "outside of time". On that I think we agree. On heaven and hell, we disagree.
The concept of eternal hell doesn't make sense to me in another way. God is eternal, infinite, omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, by definition. How can eternity be a defining characteristic of the Divine, and simultaneously of the opposite of that?
But one hundred years is as if nothing compared to eternity. Why no chance for absolution after physical death?
If, as is apparently true, most men throughout most of history have not made the cut, it seems being born as a man is risky in the extreme. Wouldn't it be better to be born as an animal? Are a few short years of human life worth the huge risk that you might well be tortured eternally, if you lose your judgement and get swayed by science or Islam?
I can't see the justice in it and I have to think that God is just.
You are correct!
Glad we cleared that up!
HE wouldn't.
I was refering to somone who repented after the death of his body. I don't understand why God would withdraw His mercy, after offering it for an unimaginably short time, relative to eternity.
You are right. WAY to many of us will interpret the Bible from our life eperiences, instead of interpreting our experiences using the Bible.
I see your point that we should adapt to the Truth, not the other way around, and I agree. But the state of our minds, determined by so many factors, unavoidably colors all of our understandings, whether we intend it or not.
I think a man like Richard Hawkins might well be innocently evaluating truth as best he can, rather than proudly rejecting God's offer. If he's wrong, must the punishment be absolute? I don't know the man's heart, so I take him as an example.
John 21, verses 20 - 22 is a discussion of the apostle who betrayed Jesus. The key verse is John 21:22: Jesus said unto him, "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou Me."
That's a beautiful verse, and I'm by no means saying hold back from Christ until all the questions are answered. But I think we were blessed with an incredible brain that allows us to ask such questions, and that we should try to understand them.
For some, there is hope even in Hell. Many who have had near-death experiences talk of seeing and visiting Hell, yet have been removed from that awful place and given another chance.
I think that most people upon arriving in hell would want to repent and turn to God. I can understand them having to spend time there in proportion to their sins, as punishment, but it seems that at some point their debt would be paid and a loving God would accept them to Him, as he had offered to do before their bodily deaths.
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