Posted on 12/12/2005 6:09:11 AM PST by Coop
Watch out there Justanobody. If that sort of talk get backs to McCain there could be trouble....
So true.
I ain't afraid of no steekin nutjob mcIsane! ;*)
"Read up, and then reconsider what you just posted."
If you wish to confine your perception of my remark to such a small time period as you did, then your response is reasonable.
Now lets do it my way.....
Over many many centuries, "Iraq" has been the defacto capitol of islam (yeah, I know about mecca and medina, too) and largely the arab world, and the inhabitants are aboriginal.
Not much resemblance to what has occurred here, even if you choose to stretch the (US, founders) retrospective to its limit, which would be 1492, but speaking practically, a lot shorter than that. (I'm not much into longterm typing in my posts, so I'll stop here)
I'm sure you could give me some history lessons, but none that would justify the title of the thread....."Bush to compare Iraqis to America's founders"......there is no comparison.
"but none that would justify the title of the thread....."Bush to compare Iraqis to America's founders"......there is no comparison."
No comparison whatsoever.
The Iraqi people would still be living under the tyranny of Saddam had it not been for American blood spilled on Iraqi soil.
Our American patriots did NOT wait for a foreign military to assist them in their quest for democracy, freedom, and taxation with representation.
About the only valid comparison is that, in both the case of Iraq and colonial America, Americans died for freedom.
LOL...Like whom? In what has been called "the barbarous and unspeakable cruelty of the Babylon Assyrians," the names of such kings as Ashurnasirpal (883-859 B.C.), Tiglath-Pileser III (745- 727 B.C.), Sennacherib (704-681 B.C.), and Ashurbanipal (669-626 B.C.) continue to evoke images of powerful brutally savage conquerors. Tiglath-Pileser III, Nebuchanezzar, Hammurabi and Cyrus the Great were no better, IMHO... They all enslaved conquered lands (Nebuchanezzar took the entire population of ancient Israel, according to the Bible), threw virgins to the ovens to quench the taste of Baal, killed innocent babies and put their own mothers to the sword. Yeah, I know, Hammurabi gave us a so-called "code" but it is in no way comparable to the Magna Carta or anything else a CIVILIZED society produced...
...go back to school, professor, you FAIL!
As opposed to a non-violent, controlled war?
Something exploded way too close to this guy's head.
Yep, those Brits back then were exactly the equivalent to Saddam's thirty year terror reign on the Iraqi people as he filled up the mass graves, the torture chambers and the rape rooms.
WHy, if a Colonist back then so much as uttered a word against the King, of course his tongue was cut out of his throat, he was hung on a pike in the town square in front of all the people, and he gurgled to his death choking on his own blood. But first he had to watch his wife and daughters raped and tortured, and his sons dragged away to the King's army.
Another way of saying...shame on you.
From which can be made fruitcakes. Lots of them.
The far right agrees with the far left, a great deal more than it agrees with the majority of us here on FR.
$$$$$
I always think of the spectrum of political perspective as a circle or sphere rather than as a line graph. Stalin led a far left regime and Hitler a far "right" one; yet they were much closer in outlook than anyone from a democratic country.
It really annoys me when media talk about Islamic fundamentalists as "far right." I'm sure they are trying to associate their behavior with American conservative philosophy and activity.
"Another way of saying...shame on you."
For what - telling the truth?
The American colonialists did far more to earn their freedom than the Iraqis have to date.
Your 'point' that Saddam's brutality hindered the Iraqis only underlines the American colonials.
The American patriots revolted for many reasons, namely taxation without representation and disgust at the British monarchy. It's not a huge assumption that they would've been even less tolerant of a brutal George III (and his predecessors), had that been the case.
Finally, I don't exactly see any Ben Franklins or Thomas Jeffersons in the Iraqi gov't at the moment either. I do, however, see a lot of power-hungry opportunists who left Iraq long ago and are only returning when it's safe and fashionable to do so.
This was a remarkable speech. Needs to be repeated over and over again. Talk about current history!
Like al Ghazali, al Kindi, and al Farabi for starters.
Great philosophers and theologians.
(btw, it's not a good idea to laugh at people who have more information than you do..........it just makes you look.................dumb).
Oh...........meandog...........do a report on al Kindi's view of Aristotle's teaching on metaphysics, and get back to me when you've finished finding out how little you know.....
And I won't doubt al Farabi's contributions to Islamic thought as it applies to some twisted form of political science. Although I would ask you exactly how al Farabi's sense of a perfect society would be Muslim and one of its main purposes was bringing about salvation of the citizens applies to 'freedom'...
I can't speak on al Ghazali as the name is not familiar, although I will research it and get back to you
It was you who were talking about contributions to thoughts on freedom, not I....... although, I would submit that thoughts on righteousness as related to God have everything to do with freedom. I never made any insinuation that Arabic philosophers contributed to democracy.
btw, it was meandog's derision of my comments to which I was mostly responding.
When ignorance (i.e. meandog) derides knowledge (i.e. ME), I find it most amusing.
And from what I've seen of meandog, he makes a habit of ridiculing people out of his abject ignorance.....
Read up a bit more on Islamic philosophers. You may be surprised that the stereotypic belief about Arabic people is quite wrong.
(And I am speaking as an Evangelical Christian, who believes that Islam is a false religion).
And just for the record, philosophy was/is considered to be a science to Greek and medieval scholars, so mathematical, scientific and philosophic contributions from the same thinkers would not be unusual.
Only in recent history has the subject of metaphysics been removed from the science of philosophy.
"What did Murtha have to say?"
here is a link to see his presser
http://thepoliticalteen.net/2005/12/12/murtharespondsbush/
"And yet the same God gave the peoples of the Old Testament a king to rule over them. Or was Kind David elected in some sort of democratic principle I've never heard of? Did the Israeli people elect Moses or Aaron as well? So I guess God didn't put the democratic spirit into Adam and Eve. Or at least the desire to 'be free' in the sense as you put it."
Go back and re-read your bible. God gave them judges, and they kept asking for a king. God finally gave them a king. Yes, they voted (prayed repeatedly) for a king.
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