Posted on 12/09/2005 8:11:20 PM PST by AZRepublican
In that case where the rules are different the free economy will always lose.
Can you cite some examples of a free economy losing to a protected economy that employs price fixing, government fiat and slave labor?
Thus the ideal that free trade is based on is deeply flawed because the Theory believe that all countries are playing by the same rules when they are not.
So free trade agreements don't specify the conditions for trading? Are you saying that none of the countries signing trade agreements adhere to the rules?
Free trade will slowly choke the life blood out of the USA.
When was the last time this country rejected a free trade agreement? Since that time, what empirical evidence can you offer that free trade has choked the life blood out of the USA? I'd be particularly interested in GDP growth, employment growth and any increases in family wealth since then. You could also look at our growth in exports, absolute manufacturing output and our standard of living.
Fair trade on the other hand will benefit not only the Rich but the middle class and the poor also.
I just love that term. No one ever bothers to explain what fair trade is or--even more to the point--to whom trade should be fair. In the name of fairness, different groups advocate different protections for their specific industries and call the comparative advantage of other countries "unfair."
How do you define fair trade? Fairness assumes a dubious character in policies that pick and choose whom to treat "fairly."
As is clearly demonstrated in the Index of Economic Freedom, once economic barriers begin to emerge, a nation's wealth begins to decline. The only form of fair trade is free trade.
Thus China/USA trade is tilted in favor of China..
I don't suppose you'd have any data to back that up, would you?
All C-R-A-P.
And those McMansions you speak of, are mass-produced plastic-looking disneyesque eyesores.
Within this debate I am reminded of Dicken's Tale of Two Cities. It was the best of times it was the worst of times..... I guess that sums it up pretty well.
Do you understand how net worth is calculated? It's simply assets minus liabilities. Our family net worth is currently about $51 trillion, which is double what it was just a decade ago.
Federal Funds Report (page 110)
National debt again at an all time high.
Yes, I've heard we have a large external debt. It's about $8.1 trillion which equals about $27,000 for every American. This is up about $295 in the last year.
So now we understand the debt. Let's talk about assets. American households have assets of $66 trillion. That's $220,735 per person? Our assets are up almost $7,000 in the past year.
Would you be willing to give up $295 in debt to pick up $7,000 in assets? If so you'd have a profit of around $6,705.
Personal savings is at an all time low.
Did you know that 401K contributions are not considered savings? Also, Government methodology understates income and overstate expenses mostly because it does not count capital gains from the sale of stocks or homes as part of disposable income, but it does count capital gains taxes as expenditures.
The U.S. Treasury data shows that Americans have earned more than $3.5 trillion in capital gains since 1997. This is more than the combined gains of the preceding 20 years. All that money has to be coming from somewhere.
In a recent Bear Stearns report on savings, David Malpass (NRO financial writer and Bear Stearns chief economist) shows per capita assets in the U.S. of $89,800 that make us the top saving country in the world. (Japan is second at $76,900 per head.)
It now takes two incomes to have all that wealth when in 1975 there was a large percentage of one income earners.
Nonsense. Since 1973 real per capita disposable income has soared from $17,727 to the current $26,725.
Japan/china vs the USA are two that come to mind we have trade deficits with each country. Taiwan also trade deficit.
Maybe you should begin by explaining why a trade deficit is bad. We've had a trade deficit for 30 years now. The last time we had a trade surplus was during a recession. Our per capita GDP and standard of living are higher than any of the countries you mention. If a trade deficit is bad then where does our economy show the negative impact? GDP growth, employment growth, income growth, productivity growth? Where is the bad news? We manufacture and export more now than at any other time in our history.
I.e we have a net lose of weatlh from this country to those country.
Our economy is larger than any of those countries you mentioned. Our per capita GDP is larger than any of those countries. Do you think that economics is a zero sum game? If so, where's your proof?
Our technology edge is gone because we traded it away for nothing in return..\
More nonsense. We still lead the world in just about every area of technology.
our military edge is shrinking because the free unrestricted trade with China is allowing them to jump decades ahead in technology in mere years.
China's military has a long way to go to even come close to ours. They have a lot of hurdles to overcome between now and then.
You can not compete with someone making .50 cents an hour no matter how much productivity you have especially when you are exporting those productivity improvements so the .50 an hour person will become as productive as you in the next few years.
Yet we continue to make and export more now than at any other time. Our industrial production is up more than 50% since 1992 and real earnings are also increasing. Looks like we're competing just fine against the people you say we can't compete with. Maybe you should learn some more about productivity before making statements like the above.
The WTO gives countries little say in the country to country conditions of trade.
I'd add GATT to your reading list as well because you don't understand the WTO.
We have ceded our interests to a world body that could care less about nation states, individuals freedom, etc etc.
Ahh, the old loss of sovereignty argument. Funny, you protectionists can never seem to identify anything specific that clearly demonstrates where we have lost any of our sovereignty. Are you familiar with the Canadian softwood debate?
Most manufactured goods come form outside countries and are assembled here
More feelings? I thought all those low skilled assembly jobs were the ones being shipped overseas in 40 ft. containers.
What will we do in a time of war. Order our parts from Brazil?
We've been unable to source the products we need for the war in Iraq? It's a strong economy that gives us a superior military. You offer lots of opinions in your post but nothing to back anything up. You should learn more about trade and our economy then you wouldn't be so afraid of things that don't exist.
Is that all you've got to prove your point? I'll rest my case then.
And those McMansions you speak of, are mass-produced plastic-looking disneyesque eyesores.
Careful, your envy is showing.
Careful, your bad taste is showing.
(You should note, btw, that I spoke only of McMansions, not of America's beautiful and stately old homes, which are--no matter how large and expensive some may be--the next best thing to see after nature iteslf--although I concede that many Victorian era homes were the McMansions of their day, however I can forgive that earlier generation its naive taste, save for an occasional overly exuberant example.)
You point to crap--most of which are vices, and wasteful vices.
I find a color TVs, air conditioners, and a host of electronic gadgets a poor recompense for sacrificing one's career to another country.
Those free trade dreamers forget that the majority of people have IQs of 100 or below.
And their utopia makes no provision for the future of those workers.
I note that a cleaning woman (so I'm sexist) works as hard as any MBA, yet earns so much less.
Why is that?
Because the MBA's and JD's make the laws, directly or by guile.
And those laws oppress the manual laborers, whom the educated elite fancy do 'menial' labor, compared the their own more important work.
And so to keep the educated elite in clover, they exploit the voiceless working poor.
And as a percentage of that elite have grown in power, they now are exploiting the middle class, under the guise of building a new global economy.
Yesterday they came for manual workers by flooding the labor pool with immgrants--legal and illegal immigrants.
Today they come for tech support workers via immigration and outsourcing.
Tomorrow, they come for your job.
I would like to know where in the Constitution that says that every American has a right to a good paying job????
You mean that document written by 19th century elites?
You know, the same people who only allowed land-owners to vote?
It is kind of funny to read the comments of mainland China manufacturers:
"How can we compete with America? They have such high productivity! Their best workers look forward to working extra! They can get rid of the worst workers. It is much more difficult to be successful here."
Teddy Roosevelt was responsible for instituting the death tax.
Once, long ago, it was considered bad form for government to rob widows and orphans with duties, fees, or taxes. Thank goodness we are beyond that now. Now we recognize that the sad loss of a protector and wage earner creates a window of opportunity for the cash strapped government. (sarcasm light on!)
Global economic growth is increasingly failing to translate into new and better jobs that lead to a reduction in poverty.
But i thought the so called powers that be had that all sewn up and on track for the 22nd century ?
Didn't the war on poverty solve this problem ?
B...B...But... I thought that a rising tide lifts all boats! Somebody call Jack Kemp and Bill Bennett gosh-darn it!
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