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To: unseen
What you fail to mention is that personal debt is at an all time high.

Do you understand how net worth is calculated? It's simply assets minus liabilities. Our family net worth is currently about $51 trillion, which is double what it was just a decade ago.

Federal Funds Report (page 110)

National debt again at an all time high.

Yes, I've heard we have a large external debt. It's about $8.1 trillion which equals about $27,000 for every American. This is up about $295 in the last year.

So now we understand the debt. Let's talk about assets. American households have assets of $66 trillion. That's $220,735 per person? Our assets are up almost $7,000 in the past year.

Would you be willing to give up $295 in debt to pick up $7,000 in assets? If so you'd have a profit of around $6,705.

Personal savings is at an all time low.

Did you know that 401K contributions are not considered savings? Also, Government methodology understates income and overstate expenses mostly because it does not count capital gains from the sale of stocks or homes as part of disposable income, but it does count capital gains taxes as expenditures.

The U.S. Treasury data shows that Americans have earned more than $3.5 trillion in capital gains since 1997. This is more than the combined gains of the preceding 20 years. All that money has to be coming from somewhere.

In a recent Bear Stearns report on savings, David Malpass (NRO financial writer and Bear Stearns chief economist) shows per capita assets in the U.S. of $89,800 that make us the top saving country in the world. (Japan is second at $76,900 per head.)

It now takes two incomes to have all that wealth when in 1975 there was a large percentage of one income earners.

Nonsense. Since 1973 real per capita disposable income has soared from $17,727 to the current $26,725.

Japan/china vs the USA are two that come to mind we have trade deficits with each country. Taiwan also trade deficit.

Maybe you should begin by explaining why a trade deficit is bad. We've had a trade deficit for 30 years now. The last time we had a trade surplus was during a recession. Our per capita GDP and standard of living are higher than any of the countries you mention. If a trade deficit is bad then where does our economy show the negative impact? GDP growth, employment growth, income growth, productivity growth? Where is the bad news? We manufacture and export more now than at any other time in our history.

I.e we have a net lose of weatlh from this country to those country.

Our economy is larger than any of those countries you mentioned. Our per capita GDP is larger than any of those countries. Do you think that economics is a zero sum game? If so, where's your proof?

Our technology edge is gone because we traded it away for nothing in return..\

More nonsense. We still lead the world in just about every area of technology.

our military edge is shrinking because the free unrestricted trade with China is allowing them to jump decades ahead in technology in mere years.

China's military has a long way to go to even come close to ours. They have a lot of hurdles to overcome between now and then.

You can not compete with someone making .50 cents an hour no matter how much productivity you have especially when you are exporting those productivity improvements so the .50 an hour person will become as productive as you in the next few years.

Yet we continue to make and export more now than at any other time. Our industrial production is up more than 50% since 1992 and real earnings are also increasing. Looks like we're competing just fine against the people you say we can't compete with. Maybe you should learn some more about productivity before making statements like the above.

The WTO gives countries little say in the country to country conditions of trade.

I'd add GATT to your reading list as well because you don't understand the WTO.

We have ceded our interests to a world body that could care less about nation states, individuals freedom, etc etc.

Ahh, the old loss of sovereignty argument. Funny, you protectionists can never seem to identify anything specific that clearly demonstrates where we have lost any of our sovereignty. Are you familiar with the Canadian softwood debate?

Most manufactured goods come form outside countries and are assembled here

More feelings? I thought all those low skilled assembly jobs were the ones being shipped overseas in 40 ft. containers.

What will we do in a time of war. Order our parts from Brazil?

We've been unable to source the products we need for the war in Iraq? It's a strong economy that gives us a superior military. You offer lots of opinions in your post but nothing to back anything up. You should learn more about trade and our economy then you wouldn't be so afraid of things that don't exist.

66 posted on 12/11/2005 4:19:49 PM PST by Mase
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To: Mase
Yes you make good points, however; you only see half the picture which is cause for concern. From your writing I would have to assume that your net worth has increased in the last 30 years. If so good for you that is after all what America is about...the pursuit of happiness etc. You label of me has a protectionist is so far off the mark as to miss it entirely. You crude attempts to question my education is also insulting. One of the first rules you should have learned is that statistics can say whatever the person wants them to say that is why I have not made specific use of numbers. There are many ways to take your numbers dissect them and come up with something totally different. I have chosen not to engage in that insane debate. I am merely stating some observations from the other side of the coin. Free trade is good is everyone plays fair up until the last 5 to 10 years this has been the rule. But since NAFTA the rules have changed and not all to the good. You casually dismiss some of my arguments as nonsense but it is the truth that most family are two incomers now not one as it was back pre 1970's and this more then any trade has increased the net worth of America. Yet you casually dismiss this fact. We are not the technology powerhouses we were 50 years ago compared to the rest of the world this is a fact. Do we still have a led? yes somewhat but for how long? China's military is a lot closer than you think. If not you would not be hearing rumblings inside Washington that you do. I understand WTO well enough. I also know about the soft lumber issues with Canada. Do you understand that the Constitution gives Congress the sole authority to set tariffs and excise taxes? We no longer have that authority in our elected leaders to any mentionable degree. In closing the rest of the picture is this:

There is a growing percentage of America that is left out of this economic boom. You may not what to see it but it is there. 401k are great I agree but I know a great many people that do not have one. Ira's again a great idea yet again large numbers of people do not have one. Home ownership is great yet again a large amount of people rent to them the recent increase in home prices does not increase their net worth. About 50% of American households own Stocks which is great and those 50% have benefited from this great economy yet 50% do not and have not. The net worth of America has gone up for all America true but if you factor out the top 30% of American families the other 70% has not seen that much of an increase in net worth. Economies are not a zero sum game and short term trade imbalances are not bad in and of themselves. However prolonged imbalances are bad because they will over time drain capital from one country to another. We are sending billions of dollars of notes overseas every day. We must repay those notes. This gives countries power over our future. If say China or Japan decides to stop buying our debt the dollar will go in a free fall overnight. Show me where we have a technological edge in this country over and above those of other countries. Hell IBM just sold their PC business to China. Our college education system is not the draw it use to be either. Just because you wish a thing is does not mean it is. There are always many sides to this debate. Some people are hurt by free trade some benefit from it. However, it becomes a problem when the majority are harmed and the minority benefit.
68 posted on 12/11/2005 8:14:55 PM PST by unseen
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