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What really happened to AA Flight 612
WorldNetDaily ^ | 09 December 2005 | Jack Cashill

Posted on 12/09/2005 5:08:08 PM PST by concretebob

click here to read article


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To: somemoreequalthanothers
"...consistent behavior through two completely different Presidential administrations, which is odd

Or... it could have another meaning, one which we'd all prefer not to believe.

101 posted on 12/09/2005 8:11:44 PM PST by Lloyd227 (and may God bless Oriana Fallaci)
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To: PushinTin

You programmed PASSUR?


102 posted on 12/09/2005 8:15:16 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Never corner anything meaner than you. NSDQ)
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To: sam_paine

I did see that...but I also saw it at 12:49. General Aviation item shows up in that area then disappears...


103 posted on 12/09/2005 8:16:37 PM PST by singlemomofone
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To: All
I was having fun with this and remembered there was an earlier incident out of JFK on September 15th with American West flight 17 (source). You can view the same images for JFK airport here http://www4.passur.com/jfk.html That plane took off at 6:49 PM (18:49) and reported an incident over Colt's Neck, NJ. If you follow flight 17 out of JFK, notice at 18:57:03 and 15,000 feet (just past Colt's Neck, NJ) something unusual happens there too. Set the map range at 40 miles.
104 posted on 12/09/2005 8:25:07 PM PST by faq
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To: PushinTin
The article mentioned a site to listen to ATC/pilot conversations..this is the link

I loaded it and listened..move the slider all the way to the end..and back up about two minutes..

105 posted on 12/09/2005 8:28:05 PM PST by concretebob (We should give anarchists what they want. Then we can kill them and not worry about jailtime.)
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To: khnyny
A shoulder to air missile being fired at an airliner is not out of the realm of possibility and IMHO, will happen if it hasn't already happened.

Why do you think the airlines are looking at the anti-missile technology?? Wake up people. It's very expensive, and so far the failing airline industry has been loath to implement such technology.
106 posted on 12/09/2005 8:28:55 PM PST by khnyny (Merry Christmas)
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To: Diplomat
"Do you have any vested interest one way or the other what this object is or is not?"

I suppose I do. I fly out of LAX regularly, and my aircraft is a much bigger target than AA 612. If I thought there was a threat of being shot at, I'd want to know. I've got a wife and two kids and a lot to live for. Fortunately, I've got enough practical knowledge of this stuff to see right through the BS spread by the likes of Jack Cashill. The man is a conman who makes a living off of other people's fear and ignorance. He is a fraud.

"Do you believe beyond a reasonable doubt this cannot be a missle?"

I would bet everything I own that what you are looking at on the PASSUR display is not a missile. I have absolutely no doubt that it is not a missile.

"Do you deny that according to PASSUR this object appears in front of AAL612 when AAL612 is over 6000ft altitude?"

You still don't understand what you are looking at. PASSUR cannot display anything real that doesn't have a transponder. In other words, if there really was something there, it had to have an IFF transmitter on board that was sending exactly the same codes as AA612. The company that created this system explains exactly what you are seeing here. It is a ghost image. It is not real.

"Do you deny that PASSUR identifies this object as AAL612, but at an altitude of 1500ft, at this point in time?"

As I have stated earlier, PASSUR does not identify anything. It merely reports information it is sent.

"Do you deny that PASSUR has this NEW object actually becoming AAL612 a few seconds after what appears to be a cross-over (or a couple or 3 cross overs) and that the originally tracked AAL612 out of LAX is lost?"

That is because the "new" object actually is a ghost image of AA612. It doesn't exist.

"Do you believe this object seen by PASSUR is a ghost object as defined in your post 46?"

Not even a doubt in my mind.

107 posted on 12/09/2005 8:30:51 PM PST by Rokke
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To: Rokke

Sorry pal but I read ALL of the info on the PASSUR web site. PASSUR uses the return information but is also fed info from the ASR. In the event that the ASR returns a signal (ghost or not) PASSUR thinks it has to assign a designation to it (I believe - computers doing what they think is correct). Clearly evident by clicking on the icon on the dual radar track from PASSUR - the FAA ATC tapes may not have designated the bogey as the AA flight. By your explanation the bogey return the same IFF codes as the AA flight at least as far as PASSUR was concerned. How could that be? TCAS is NOT implemented on ALL commercial aircraft. ONLY those with FAA oversight. Many foreign freighters and other aircraft do carry TCAS. Also, it is entirely possible that this was another aircraft that wandered into the airspace with it's IFF turned off. I can turn IFF off on my plane anytime I want. Is it also possible that there a drug runners who have IFF spoofing capability (unlikely a 13:00 in LA but if the money's right)? EA-6B's can do it with the flip of a switch and they can return the appropriate radar signature for any aircraft they want. Did the AA pilot report a TCAS warning? I have not heard that if he did then the whole thing is probably just one big snafu.


108 posted on 12/09/2005 8:34:03 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Never corner anything meaner than you. NSDQ)
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To: concretebob

Jerry Doyle has a guest coming up right now to talk about it.


109 posted on 12/09/2005 8:34:44 PM PST by Mr Cobol (.Liberalism isn't a political philosophy. It's a vile combination of sickness and evil—M Schiller)
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To: Cicero
"Transponders make things brighter and easier to track, but they are mainly used for purposes of identification."

That's not entirely accurate. Transponders are transmitters. They don't add anything to a target's radar cross section. They emit an electronic signal providing a "secondary" contact for radars tuned to look for that signal. A "secondary" contact is not a raw radar return. It is simply a radio signature transmitted from the target aircraft. And while you are absolutely correct to say radar can track passive objects, the system everyone is viewing in this thread cannot. It can only see "secondaries".

110 posted on 12/09/2005 8:40:26 PM PST by Rokke
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To: varmintxer
Where can I link to streaming audio? I did a google and can't find a station..
Any suggestions?
111 posted on 12/09/2005 8:42:34 PM PST by concretebob (We should give anarchists what they want. Then we can kill them and not worry about jailtime.)
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To: concretebob

http://64.62.253.55/ksev700

Try this, good show.


112 posted on 12/09/2005 8:43:37 PM PST by Mr Cobol (.Liberalism isn't a political philosophy. It's a vile combination of sickness and evil—M Schiller)
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To: concretebob

This is a good ref for talk shows.

http://radio.findanisp.com/radio-shows-on-air.php


113 posted on 12/09/2005 8:45:31 PM PST by Mr Cobol (.Liberalism isn't a political philosophy. It's a vile combination of sickness and evil—M Schiller)
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To: Rokke
And while you are absolutely correct to say radar can track passive objects, the system everyone is viewing in this thread cannot. It can only see "secondaries".

Is there an actual report of a reflectivity return from this "bottle rocket" or are the conspiracy buffs relying only on transponder signals? Anyway, what do you think the pilots saw? Temperature layers causing refraction?

114 posted on 12/09/2005 8:45:50 PM PST by mikegi
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To: concretebob

A good read for everyone.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7148187/


115 posted on 12/09/2005 8:46:07 PM PST by khnyny (Merry Christmas)
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To: varmintxer

Thanks and Merry Christmas


116 posted on 12/09/2005 8:46:18 PM PST by concretebob (We should give anarchists what they want. Then we can kill them and not worry about jailtime.)
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To: concretebob

Welcome and Merry Christmas back at ya!


117 posted on 12/09/2005 8:47:33 PM PST by Mr Cobol (.Liberalism isn't a political philosophy. It's a vile combination of sickness and evil—M Schiller)
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To: mikegi

The conversation I listened to had the pilot saying it looked like a rocket.


118 posted on 12/09/2005 8:51:27 PM PST by concretebob (We should give anarchists what they want. Then we can kill them and not worry about jailtime.)
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To: Rokke
Many thanks for your explanation of PASSUR. I've watched and shared the PASSUR report with others and am curious as to how you would describe the event in question.

Apologies in advance if you have done so previously.

119 posted on 12/09/2005 8:54:05 PM PST by LNewman
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To: Rokke

uh ... never mind ... answered own question. duh.


120 posted on 12/09/2005 8:58:21 PM PST by LNewman
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