A screen shot from the website. This is a 20 mile wide shot.
Posted on 12/09/2005 5:08:08 PM PST by concretebob
The rumor mill started humming Monday morning, Nov. 28, after ABC Radio aired the following report:
FBI and Homeland Security agents spent part of the weekend investigating the report of a possible missile fired at a plane leaving Los Angeles international airport. ABC's Alex Stone has the details.
... the pilots radioed air-traffic controllers saying what appeared to be a rocket had been fired at the aircraft and missed as American Airlines Flight 621 was climbing over the water. It had just taken off from LAX. The plane was enroute to Chicago ... When it landed, FBI agents spoke with the pilots. Sources say those agents now believe it was a flare or a bottle rocket that passed by and they don't think it was any threat to the aircraft.
This report did not run for long, possibly no more than once or twice. Still, thousands of people heard it, and many of those were understandably suspicious when no other major media outlet picked up the story.
Not satisfied with rumors, retired United Airline pilot, Ray Lahr, and aviation audio expert, Glen Schulze, decided to investigate. The pair have been cooperating in Lahr's ongoing Freedom Of Information Act suit in federal court against the CIA and the National Transportation Safety Board regarding the demise of TWA Flight 800. What they have found about the LAX flight is inconclusive, but intriguing, and deserves serious inquiry.
For starters, the flight was AA 612 and not AA 621 as reported. Lahr and Schulze checked its progress using the LAX airport monitor. Those interested in doing the same can enter Nov. 26, 12:49, 20-mile range, and then click on "start."
You will see every airplane aloft in the Los Angeles area on the map. In about a half minute, "AAL612" appears as a green aircraft crossing the shoreline. If you click on the aircraft, it will turn red, and the flight data will appear in a box to the right. Over the next few minutes, the aircraft turns south. At approximately 6,000 feet and off the coast of Redondo Beach, a new target will appear.
"The unidentified target's altitude does some funny things," observes Glenn Schulze, "from a constant 1,500 feet to suddenly showing 7,500 feet where it remains, which is the same altitude as AA FL 612 at this point in AA FL 612's climb-out."
According to Lahr, AA 612 seems "to split and become TWO! It remains TWO for a while, both targets moving together, then they separate, the mirror target fades, and AA 612 (thank God) is alone again, heading slightly south east."
The unidentified target appears for 12 to 13 sweeps of the FAA LAX TRACON radar rotating at a 4.7-second sweep rate. "This target can not be easily explained away as a radar ghost or artifact or swamp gas," adds Schulze, "as it exists and tracks over the ground for almost 50 seconds as it travels along with AA FL 612. Dynamite evidence!"
What makes the evidence particularly compelling is that the pilots apparently saw what the radar was reporting. Those who are interested in the pilot's commentary can go to the following site. The relevant conversation is at the very end of this segment, during the last minute. This conversation takes place several minutes after the incident and alludes to an earlier conversation.
ATC: Flare or a rocket?
AA 612: It looked more like a rocket.
ATC: American 612, how far away was it from your position?
AA 612: It was about half way between us and the coastline when we first called that last center guy.
Whatever the pilot saw prompted enough concern for LAX officials to contact the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security. It also prompted a very serious report on ABC radio.
The most comprehensive reporting on the subject appeared Dec. 3 in an LAX area newspaper called The South Bay Daily Breeze. The headline says it all: "Smoke Trail Wasn't Threat to Plane, Say Investigators."
The article describes what the pilot saw as an "an unusual vapor trail," one that was "at least a mile below the airplane." FBI spokeswoman Laura Eimiller assured the readers that this presumed trail "absolutely posed no threat." This claim would be more reassuring had the FBI not also convinced the reporter that "whatever left the vapor trail did not appear on radar, and the pilot never reported seeing any kind of projectile."
The existing evidence would seem to refute all of those claims. The pilots saw not a vapor trail, but a "flare or a rocket." They saw it when the plane was no higher than 6,000 feet. Anything "at least a mile below them" would likely be swimming. The radar did pick something up, and the pilots considered the event sufficiently alarming to report it.
A veteran Airline Pilots Association safety investigator, Lahr was once much more likely to accept aviation authorities at their word. Having spent the last several years fighting them for information in the federal courts, he has grown increasingly skeptical.
The FBI may have its reason for quieting fears, Lahr understands, but as the distorted investigation of TWA Flight 800 has shown, a pacified population is a vulnerable one.
Why would the news media be interested in covering this up though? You would think any security failure within the US would be seen as a major failure of the Bush admin., and thereby be something the media would want to shout about.
Ok, found it. Thought they meant 12midnight. Well, that certainly is interesting. I must say, the FBI is becoming quite lax not to have doctored this track. Sheesh! If they are going to engineer a coverup they really must put forth more of an effort.
No it showed up on radar (~1500 Ft) almost directly underneath the plane. Had to be a nearly vertical trajectory at that point.
I looked at it myself. The bogey flew straight up, then tailed the plane, then, thanks be to God, it peeled off. Assuming it was a rocket (really the only logical conclusion) it didn't quite manage to engage well enough to make a hit, then burned out and that's all she wrote.
It is a cool website. You can pull up the NY airports and look at flights.
Unfortunately, the data only goes back to last year.
If you let that reconstruction run on http://www4.passur.com/lax.html a little bit longer, a weird thing happens at about 12:55. In that same spot where the "rocket" showed shooting up from 1200ft to 7200ft, a "General Aviation" track shows up and hovers there at about 2500ft for several seconds. Hmmm.
Or maybe an Islamist converted student who shot a MANPADs he bought from Chinese smugglers from a boat that had gone out there from King Harbor.
A screen shot from the website. This is a 20 mile wide shot.
That's quite a bottle rocket. (sarc)
That would be an interesting wrinkle. A single engine plane could be an alternative to a boat to release a MANPADs out at sea like that. If someone did that, they'd likely take off from the Torrance Airport and fly below the main TCA radars to get out to sea.
Can you guys try to confirm if you can see what I saw in #27?
Well that is odd. Hmmmm, two completely different administrations but a similar problem. What do you suppose both incidents have in common. How about NUTJOB CONSPIRACY CRACKPOTS THAT DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT?!?! Ya think?
Too easy to trace. Lots of radar sites in that area, They are hard to get below because its open water.
I would suspect launch from boat. Even then, why broad daylight? You would think getaway would be easier at night.
Where are you seeing altitudes? They didn't show on my screen, or the snap shot I posted.
Well, I assume this software just assumes that undefined image is GA, but then it disappears again. If it were a little plane, it wouldn't have hung around in the area, eh? I'm wondering if it's a return trip down image?
That said, at this time of year there is often quite a bit of sea haze. The launch might not have been noticed by other boats at all.
When you double-click on the plane, the details show up in the data area on the right.
I tried to view it again - but it's hanging. I think we overloaded the server! ;) I will try again in a bit.
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