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I never stated that women are not punished for adultery in Islam. Nor have I ever stated that in Pakistan, women have rights equal to those of men.

But the gross Islamophobic generalizations in this thread need to be refuted.

This crime had nothing to do with Pakistani "culture". It had to do with thugs who were caught, and then tried to justify their crimes. Just as every criminal does.

But the gross Islamophobic generalizations in this thread need to be refuted.

What is "Islamophobia," anyway?
In an article yesterday, the journalist and Islamic apologist Stephen Schwartz defined "Islamophobia" this way:
Notwithstanding the arguments of some Westerners, Islamophobia exists; it is not a myth. Islamophobia consists of:
• attacking the entire religion of Islam as a problem for the world;
• condemning all of Islam and its history as extremist;
• denying the active existence, in the contemporary world, of a moderate Muslim majority;
• insisting that Muslims accede to the demands of non-Muslims (based on ignorance and arrogance) for various theological changes, in their religion;
• treating all conflicts involving Muslims (including, for example, that in Bosnia-Hercegovina a decade ago), as the fault of Muslims themselves;
• inciting war against Islam as a whole.

While there may be by this definition some Islamophobes in the world, the definition actually obscures more than it reveals. Does the labeling as “Islamophobic” the practice of “attacking the entire religion of Islam as a problem for the world” mean that it is Islamophobic to focus attention on the Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Prophet as motivations for terrorist activity? If so, then jihad terrorists worldwide are themselves “Islamophobic,” for as we have seen, they routinely point to jihad passages from the Qur’an and Hadith to justify their actions. Nor is a frank discussion of the doctrine of Islamic jihad equivalent to saying that the “entire religion of Islam” is a “problem for the world: no one is saying that tayammum (ablution with sand instead of water) or dhikr (a dervish religious devotion) or other elements of Islam pose a problem for the world.
Defining as “Islamophobic” the condemnation of “all of Islam and its history as extremist” is similarly problematic — and not just because of the sloppy imprecision of the word “extremist.” Jihad and dhimmitude are and always have been part of Islam. Yet no religious commandment of any religion has ever been uniformly observed by its adherents, and no law has ever been universally enforced. Jews and Christians in Islamic lands were able at various times and places to live with a great deal of freedom; however, this does not contradict the fact that the laws of the dhimma always remained on the books, able to be enforced anew by any Muslim ruler with the will to do so.
Likewise, it may be “Islamophobic” to deny “the active existence, in the contemporary world, of a moderate Muslim majority,” but this also is beside the point. The existence of a moderate Muslim majority is not a question of “Islamophobia” or lack thereof, but of fact. But it is a fact that is very hard to ascertain with certainty -- not least because of the problem of definition: it’s useless to affirm that there is a “moderate Muslim majority” without clearing up the meaning of the word “moderate.” What makes a moderate Muslim? One who does not and never will engage in terrorist acts? That would make moderates an overwhelming majority of Muslims worldwide. Or is a moderate one who sincerely disapproves of those terrorist acts? That would reduce the number of moderates. Or is a moderate Muslim one who actively speaks out and works against the jihadists? That would lower the number yet again. Or finally, is a moderate Muslim one who actively engages the jihadists in a theological battle, trying to convince Muslims on Islamic grounds that jihad terrorism is wrong? That would leave us with a tiny handful.

But the gross Islamophobic generalizations in this thread need to be refuted.

You have consistently made false and misleading statements throughout this discussion. How can you educate others when you are the one here with false ideas?

Men found guilty of rape in Muslim countries face the death penalty.

What you are saying is quite misleading, approaching being outright false. Your statement misleadingly suggested that these boys would face the death penalty for this crime in Pakistan, but they would not. Adultery is punishable by death, but since neither the muslim rapists nor the australian victims in this case were married, that is not relevant here. The crime of rape is punishable by lashes, not death as you claim. Even worse, the crime is rape is nearly impossible to prove, so it is ridiculous to say anyone in pakistan faces any penalty for rape whatsoever.

I never stated that women are not punished for adultery in Islam.

You falsely suggested that only men face the death penalty when women accuse them of rape. As discussed above, the reality is that men in Pakistan face no penalty whatsoever for rape, because the standards of proof are impossible to meet. When these standards are not met, the WOMEN accusers face the death penalty for "slander". Isn't Islamophobia quite justified, when women who complain of rape are themselves the ones who face the death penalty by Islamic courts, and rapists face almost no risk of punishment?

A "radical Islamist" would never admit to intoxication. Alcohol is banned by Islam.

This is definitely false, since the september 11th atrocity loving muslim terrorists were seen drinking heavily in bars with each other on preceeding evenings. Letters from their radical islamist imams encouraged them to live as westerners, including drinking. The sin of drinking alcohol is quite small compared against the islamic religious ideal of committing atrocities against non-muslims. By the way, radical islamists in Iraq are now "intoxicating" each other with crystal methamphetamine before battle.

No - The four witnesses are required to prove adultery, not rape.

This is also false.

This crime had nothing to do with Pakistani "culture".

False. You are ignorant of pakistani culture, in which tribal councils order rapes. As punishment, daughters may be forcibly handed over to claimants for "marriage", which is defacto rape. Read the testimony of the rapists, which explicitly states their behavior came straight from their culture. Listen to witness testimony, where the rapists were heard to say they were going to teach them gang rape "leb style". Then read the Koran, which explicitly sanctions the rape of non-muslims (slave girls and concubines forcibly taken in battle, etc..)

There are many Muslim countries which are peaceful and even promote women's rights.

Absolutely, totally false. There is nothing that correlates more with violence and oppression of women than the presence of Islam. Islamic countries make rape almost impossible to prove, and subject women accusers to the death penalty for "slander". How is that for women's rights? How an epidemic of gang rape for women's rights?

And as for standing and watching during a gang rape, that happens pretty much everywhere. It's not restricted to Pakistanis. It is common throughout the world. Including in the US. It has nothing to do with Islam and more to do with attitudes toward women.

You're deluding yourself, the only question is why? Why is gang rape more associated with Islam than anything else? Those attitudes towards women which lead to gang rape happen to come directly from Islam. That's why gang rape is epidemic in the muslim dominated areas of France, where any women not in hijab is "fair game". It's also why gang rapes are epidemic in Malmo, a heavily muslim portion of Sweden. And it's why this country shocking gang rape case in Australia was perpetuated by muslims. None of this is a coincidence.

Actually Islam is a mental illness and unfortunately 1/6 of the world has it.

But the gross Islamophobic generalizations in this thread need to be refuted.

Why? Better yet why buy your premise that there are gross islamophobic generalizations let alone any islamophobic generalizations in this thread. But wait -why buy your premise that there is such a thing as islamophobia?

You are an ineffective troll -I suggest you find a new hobby...

Hmm, Nov. 15, 2005.

Welcome to FR.

This crime had nothing to do with Pakistani "culture". It had to do with thugs who were caught, and then tried to justify their crimes. Just as every criminal does.

The problem is Pakistani culture insofar as it is Mooselimb, sharia-dominated, makes it far easier to commit rape with impunity, even IF the woman screams bloody murder, the standards for proof are almost impossible to meet, either physically (how many rapes are done in front of four witnesses) or socially (if you can't prove your accusation of rape, YOU get punished--talk about adding insult to injury!).

At least in Western countries, it is not "heads I win, tales you lose" against the woman; even though there are other difficulties.

Nice try, though.

Cheers!

If you are going to argue what you have been arguing...I suggest you change your screen name. It is demeaning.

This crime had nothing to do with Pakistani "culture". It had to do with thugs who were caught, and then tried to justify their crimes. Just as every criminal does.

Even the rapist has admitted that these rapes were based on a cultural misunderstanding (i.e. he felt justified under islam). Why do you deny what he freely admits?