Theory of intelligent design making its way into Broward textbooks (Florida)

Sun-sentinel.com ^ | December 9, 2005 | Chris Kahn

[mlc9852]

Broward County on Thursday narrowed its choices for high school Biology I textbooks to two finalists, both of which have been under scrutiny by Christian conservatives who want to change the way students learn about the origin of life.

Both have edited passages about evolution theory during the past few years after receiving complaints from the Discovery Institute. The think tank sponsors research on intelligent design, which argues life is so complicated, it must have been fashioned by a higher being. One of the books also has added a short section on creationism.

[mlc9852]

Then it may be better for you to just skip over my posts like I do with certain people on these threads. Keeps your blood pressure down.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Well, perhaps they could start with looking for Noah's Ark."

It's been looked for. Nothing yet. Until then... :)

[atlaw]

Well, perhaps they could start with looking for Noah's Ark.

Who's "they"? What's to stop "creation" or "ID" scientists from looking (besides their near pathological aversion to primary research)?

[mlc9852]

It's probably somewhere in Turkey. There have, of course, been expeditions over the years but there seems to be a problem accessing the area for political reasons. I've seen a couple of interesting documentaries about the search. I think it will eventually be found.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"I want science to investigate whatever can be investigated."

Me too.

"A lot of science is beliefs, isn't it?"

No.

"Well, I guess you call them theories."

Yes. There's a big difference, which you already know.

[ThinkDifferent]

If you have only two possibilities of how the universe came to be, natural or supernatural, unless you are an elitist snob you place both in the text book.

There are two possibilities as to how planets orbit the sun: the inverse square law of gravity, or angels pushing them around. Teach both?

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"It's probably somewhere in Turkey."

Or not.

"There have, of course, been expeditions over the years but there seems to be a problem accessing the area for political reasons. I've seen a couple of interesting documentaries about the search. I think it will eventually be found."

Now THAT is a belief.

[mlc9852]

See my post at 144. Seems some serious archaeologists would be interested.

[mlc9852]

Where does the Bible say angels push the earth around?

[Coyoteman]

Definitions are by definition what someone says they are. I'm not convinced.

It is amazing to me that you are trying to change even the common definitions used in science, much as the Kansas folks had to change the definition of science.

And you didn't answer my question.

[Fester Chugabrew]

. . . the driver crossing the bridge trusts that the builder relied on good old, non-theological engineering principals, and not the Bible, when constructing it.

Actually the driver most likely could care less whether the designer believed in God or not. But he would care even less if the established principles applicable to both the builder and the bridge were void of intelligent design, for there would be no bridge, nor a gap to be bridged, nor a driver to cross the bridge, nor a toll, nor two Freepers to discuss the contingencies.

And the same holds true with biology, correct? If not, why not?

Biology, like any other discipline, can be undertaken without stating or assuming "God is forever outside the purview of science."

[mlc9852]

"You don't really want science investigating beliefs, now do you?"

Hypothesis = belief

Does that answer your question?

[Fester Chugabrew]

. . . the inverse square law of gravity, or angels pushing them around.

Maybe the former is just a common way of stating the latter.

[Junior]

The CrevoSci Archive Just one of the many services of Darwin Central "The Conspiracy that Cares"

• PatrickHenry's famous List-O-Links
• Webster's On-Line Dictionary:  Creationist

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CrevoSci threads for the past week:

1. 2005-12-09 Dog's Genome Could Provide Clues to Disorders in Humans
2. 2005-12-09 Giant Asian Ape and Humans Coexisted, Might Have Interacted
3. 2005-12-09 Movement Of Earth's North Magnetic Pole Accelerating Rapidly [No Doubt Bush's Fault!]
4. 2005-12-09 Theory of intelligent design making its way into Broward textbooks (Florida)
5. 2005-12-09 Whales, ostrich evolved in India
6. 2005-12-08 Ancient drought 'changed history'
7. 2005-12-08 Anti-creationism prof (KansasU) quits department chair
8. 2005-12-08 Dog genome sequence and analysis published in 'Nature'
9. 2005-12-08 Funny Cartoon!
10. 2005-12-08 God, Science [evolution], and the Kooky Kansans Who Love them Both
11. 2005-12-08 Huge New Virus Defies Classification
12. 2005-12-08 Man's best friend shares most genes with humans
13. 2005-12-08 Prof. Critical of Creationism Resigns Post
14. 2005-12-08 Similar stem cells in insect and human gut (Fruit flies are 'tiny distant cousins'?)
15. 2005-12-08 Students Denounce Reported Assault on Prof. Who Mocked Christian Fundamentalists
16. 2005-12-08 WHAT HAPPENED TO PAUL MIRECKI? (Phony Hate Crime Alert)
17. 2005-12-07 Creation, Evolution, and Thomas Aquinas
18. 2005-12-07 Hobbits May Be Earliest Australians
19. 2005-12-07 Introduction: The Illusion of Design [Richard Dawkins]
20. 2005-12-07 Kansas U. Religion Chair Mirecki Resigns Department Post
21. 2005-12-07 KU professor steps down as chairman
22. 2005-12-07 Live Longer With Evolution? Evidence May Lie in Fruit Flies
23. 2005-12-07 Mirecki mum on details of beating
24. 2005-12-07 Officers clarify Mirecki attack details
25. 2005-12-07 Plaintiffs' Proposed Findings in the Dover Evolution/ID Trial
26. 2005-12-07 Researchers Decode Dog Genome
27. 2005-12-06 Dinosaur poop shows grass is older than it seems
28. 2005-12-06 New Carnivore discovered (strange pic)
29. 2005-12-06 Professor beaten; attackers cite KU creationism class
30. 2005-12-06 Why Fight Over Intelligent Design?
31. 2005-12-05 Intelligent design’s long march to nowhere
32. 2005-12-05 Mirecki hospitalized after beating (KU Relig. prof. who mocked religion)
33. 2005-12-05 Science Grads, Where Are You? (Intel chief bemoans US science edu)
34. 2005-12-05 Strange New Carnivore Species Sighted On Borneo
35. 2005-12-04 Hume, Reid, and Signs of Intelligence
36. 2005-12-03 Childbirth: Flawed Babies Need Not Apply
37. 2005-12-03 Citizen MD [American Medical Association op-ed against Intelligent Design]
38. 2005-12-03 Gene may affect IQ in males, scientists say
39. 2005-12-03 Intelligent Design Might Be Meeting Its Maker

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CrevoSci Thread Count, 2005 YTD:  1245

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On This Date in CrevoSci History

1. 2004-12-09 Darwin under fire (again): Intelligent design vs. evolution
2. 2004-12-09 Human ancestors started eating meat, evolution served up a healthy bonus.< eata this Peta >
3. 2004-12-09 Stupid Dino Tricks
4. 2003-12-09 Changing One Gene Launches New Fly Species

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Longest CrevoSci Thread Ever

• 2002-12-11 Evolution Disclaimer Supported (6,915 replies)

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Lost CrevoSci Battlefields (Pulled or Locked Threads)

1. 2005-11-15 'Perception' gene tracked humanity's evolution, scientists say
2. 2004-04-27 Stop Teaching Our Kids this Evolution Claptrap!
3. 2003-10-29 The Mystery of the Missing Links (Intelligent Design vs. Evolution)
4. 2003-10-27 Physics Nobelist Takes Stand on Evolution
5. 2003-10-23 Gene Found for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
6. 2003-10-21 Artificial Proteins Assembled from Scratch
7. 2003-09-23 Solar System Formation Questions
8. 2003-09-17 Agreement of the Willing - Free Republic Science Threads
9. 2003-07-18 Unlikely Group May Revive Darwin Debate [Evolution v. Creationism]
10. 2003-07-02 Unlocking the Mystery of 'Unlocking the Mystery of Life'
11. 2003-06-26 Darwin Faces a New Rival
12. 2003-06-06 Amazing Creatures
13. 2002-09-13 Oldest Known Penis Is 100 Million Years Old
14. 2002-04-10 (Creationists) CRSC Correction
15. 2001-11-10 Alabama to continue biology textbook warning sticker
16. 2001-11-06 Warming makes mosquito evolve, University of Oregon scientists find
17. 2001-08-28 The Ultimate Creation vs. Evolution Resource [6th Revision]
18. 2001-08-26 A Scientific Account of the Origin of Life on Earth [Thread I]
19. 2001-01-13 A Christian Understanding of Intelligent Design
20. 2000-11-15 Evolutionism Receives Another Hard Blow
21. 2000-10-10 Another Lost Generation?
22. 2000-08-30 Evil-Ution
23. 1999-11-14 Creationism's Success Past 5 Years: (Gallup: 1 in 10 hold secular evolutionist perspective)

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CrevoSci Warrior Freepdays for the month of December:

1999-12-03 Aquinasfan 2002-12-06 Archangelsk 2004-12-29 b_sharp 2000-12-10 bdeaner 2000-12-29 BedRock 2004-12-03 bobdsmith 2004-12-15 Catholic54321 2004-12-14 Chiapet 1998-12-24 dead 1999-12-17 dennisw 2004-12-18 dervish 2000-12-13 Dr. I. C. Spots 2001-12-13 e_engineer 2000-12-26 Fester Chugabrew 1998-12-23 Frapster

2002-12-20 furball4paws 2003-12-21 gspz 1997-12-08 Gumlegs 2003-12-05 Guydude 2002-12-01 HalfFull 2002-12-18 Happy2BMe 2000-12-01 I_Publius 2004-12-27 indcons 1998-12-07 JAWs 2002-12-10 john_baldacci_is_a_commie 2000-12-13 johnandrhonda 1997-12-05 Ken H 1999-12-25 kjam22 2004-12-30 leight 1997-12-09 longshadow

1999-12-29 Mensch 2002-12-07 Milltownmalbay 2004-12-03 mlc9852 2002-12-06 new cruelty 2001-12-25 nickcarraway 2003-12-02 PetroniusMaximus 1997-12-08 Pfesser 1999-12-17 Publius6961 2002-12-13 qam1 2000-12-09 rcocean 2000-12-02 rdb3 1999-12-24 RightWhale 2000-12-01 rwfromkansas 1997-12-06 saquin 2002-12-08 Sentis

1999-12-08 shrinkermd 2001-12-04 SpiderMBA 2004-12-17 Stark_GOP 2001-12-19 Steve Eisenberg 2000-12-08 Stultis 2000-12-08 Sub-Driver 2001-12-27 Tailgunner Joe 2002-12-10 tbird5 2004-12-06 Thatcherite 1998-12-10 TheOtherOne 1999-12-07 Tolerance Sucks Rocks 1998-12-14 VadeRetro 2000-12-29 Virginia-American 1998-12-22 VOA 1997-12-18 Waco

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In Memoriam
Fallen CrevoSci Warriors:

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1LongTimeLurker Ahriman ALS angelo Area Freeper Aric2000 Askel5 Asphalt biblewonk bluepistolero churchillbuff claptrap codebreaker Con X-Poser ConservababeJen dbbeebs Destro DittoJed2 dob Ed Current

f.Christian followerofchrist freeparella general_re goodseedhomeschool gopwinsin04 gore3000 Happy2BMe Helms IllumiNOTi JediGirl JesseShurun JethroHathaway JFK_Lib jlogajan JoeSchem john_baldacci_is_a_commie Justice Avenger Kevin Curry kharaku

knowquest Land of the Irish Le-Roy malakhi Marathon masked face doom medved Merdoug metacognative mikeharris65 missyme Modernman Morris Hattrick n4sir neoconsareright NoKinToMonkeys Ogmios OnlyinAmerica peg the prophet Phaedrus

Phoroneus pickemuphere ReasonedThought ret_medic RickyJ RJCogburn SeaLion Selkie Shubi SplashDog Stingy Dog The Loan Arranger the lone rider Tomax tpaine Truth666 twittle Unalienable WaveThatFlag xm177e2

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Bring back Modernman and SeaLion!

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	The official stout of Darwin Central

Glossary of Terms

Assumption: Premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play" Belief: Any cognitive content (perception) held as true; religious faith Crevo:  Creation vs. evolution CrevoSci:  Creation vs. evolution/Science CrevoSci Warriors:  Those who take part on CrevoSci threads Data: factual information, especially information organized for analysis or used to reason or make decisions Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof Fact: When an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact Freepday:  The day a Freeper joined Free Republic Hypothesis: A tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices" Impression: A vague idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying" Law: A generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics" Observation: Any information collected with the senses Theory: A well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses"; "true in fact and theory"

[Coyoteman]

Hypothesis = belief

Does that answer your question?

No. As used in science the two are not equivalent.

[RogueIsland]

And I curse those atheistic engineers for their Godless mathematics every time I cross the Verrazano Narrows.

Actually, I think crossing some of the bridges in the Tri-State area is an act of faith in itself.

[b_sharp]

"Man it's a hoot to watch these threads.

More fun to contribute to them, you might try it some day.

"I just don't get it. If you evolutionists are so darn certain, why are you so scared of intelligent design.

Who said anything about being afraid? Angry that pseudoscience is being pushed into the schools maybe, but not afraid. I also take part in a forum that debunks pseudoscience such as homeopathy; does that mean I'm afraid of quacks?

"Do you think people are stupid? Do you think that they aren't capable of weighing one against the other and deciding which has more merit?

Most people accept whatever they've been taught as children. If you think people will take the time to really weigh the pros and cons you need to look at all the people who believe in astrology, homeopathy, naturopathic medicine, crystals, pyramid power and so on.

"You guys actually make people want to investigate intelligent design by the knee-jerk response you have to it.

The reaction of science to ID is not knee-jerk in any sense of the term. Science knows more about ID than the majority of ID proponents. This is why people like Behe and Dembski find they need to constantly modify their hypotheses. Science points out the problems, and IDists try to make changes. This is good, but so far ID still hasn't made it to the science platform, they're still loading it on the truck at the factory

"Because you doth protest too much, IMO.

Had science protested enough, let alone too much, there would be no attempts to push it into the schools.

[mlc9852]

"Angry that pseudoscience is being pushed into the schools maybe, but not afraid. I also take part in a forum that debunks pseudoscience such as homeopathy; does that mean I'm afraid of quacks?"

You mean like cabbage preventing/curing bird flu? Or medicine like the Chinese have practiced for hundreds of years?

[b_sharp]

"If anyone thinks me a fool for being a creationist and intelligent design believer that is their right. I also have the right to think less of their point of view as well. The debate is a good thing to have. It is those who stifle the debate who seem to have an agenda other than getting to the truth in mind."

I doubt you are a fool. I do suspect, however that you have been given strawman information of evolution rather than accurate information.

[Fester Chugabrew]

Belief: Any cognitive content (perception) held as true; religious faith.

Two meanings, the former of which comfortably applies to a hypothesis.