Midway: Southwest Plane Crashes through fence.

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[sharkhawk]

A plane has apparently crashed through a fence at Midway airport in Chicago. Southwest airline 737 plane now sitting in intersection of 55th and Central. Channel 7 has confirmed, fire and ambulances on way. Details still sketchy.

[Rte66]

Oh my! Lemme see, 25 mi s -- do you eat a lot of RS watermelons, strawberries and tomatoes? Wow, so close to the evil Hburton, too.

J&W used to be just on the left after you go into town from I-44 or Hwy 62 coming in from Norman (or Blanchard). I'll look it up.

Yes! Still has a phone listing and still at same address - 501 Choctaw Ave. That'll be really easy coming from the south. Hwy 81 is 4th Street and Hwy 62 is Choctaw Ave. So just drive north till you get to Hwy 62 (Choctaw Ave) and turn left; then just go one block to 5th St. and it's on your left. That's it! It's just a little diner, unless they've done something fancy to it.

(My very favorite cheeseburger that isn't an onionburger for many years was in Ardmore - at Bill & Barb's, way in town to the east. Just a plain old all-American cheeseburger, but addictive.)

Mexican food is a whole 'nuther ballgame up there and I wouldn't know what to tell ya nowadays. Seems like El Charro started in PV or somewhere like that, years ago, when they were the only Mexican family in Oklahoma. If I think of something, I'll FReepmail.

Let me know if you go to J&W and if you like it.

[Rte66]

Further up the thread, there were statements about SWA's safety record--no fatalities until this one, but I don't know about crashes.

[Sally'sConcerns]

There's nothing to stop AA or any other airline from having flights fly from Love now. Several years ago, around the time AA started American Eagle, American actually built a couple of gates at Love because they were going to try and capture some of SW's business. From what I remember of news reports back then, American changed their mind and decided to base its puddlejumpers' out of DFW because their base hub was there and they didn't have to worry about transferring maintenance or other employees from DFW. They also decided the restrictions SW was operating under were too restrictive and they wouldn't have that problem flying out of DFW.

Love is surrounded by homes, business and major roads in a way that DFW isn't.

And, so??? SW has been flying a lot of flights out of Love for years and those homes, businesses and major roads aren't exactly new nor have they impacted Southwest's ability to fly out of Love. If American starts to fly out of Love because their flights can go non-stop to cities outside of what Wright restricts, it will mean competition with SouthWest and the consumer will be the one's who benefit from the competition.

Do I foresee a mad rush by all the other airlines to start flying out of Love? There will be some who start to fly out of Love but I don't see a mad rush. Partly because Love Field is limited in how much they can expand terminal wise. There just isn't room to build additional terminals to accommodate a bunch of new gates. Also, SW already runs a pretty busy schedule out of Love Field and Love may not be able to handle a mass influx of new flights. SouthWest may add additional flights since they'll be able to fly non-stop instead of having to have a stop-over in a border state. It's conceivable SW may save money since they won't have to pay gate fees and other fees to land in border states just to comply with the Wright Amendment.

I remember several years ago I wanted to fly to Las Vegas. I called SW because I was pretty sure their flights to LV would be cheaper than anyone else's. Because of the Wright Amendment the agent couldn't specifically tell me SW had flights into LV. They had to make a distinction and tell me I could fly to Phoenix and catch a connecting flight on to Las Vegas. They weren't even allowed to tell me they had a flight out of Dallas with a stop-over whose final destination was Vegas.

I can see where the Wright Amendment was good legislation when DFW initially opened since it forced the different airlines to move to DFW. The thing is, DFW has matured and can now stand on their own feet. Repeal of the Wright Amendment will have only a nominal impact on DFW. One only has to look at Houston with Hobby and Houston Intercontinental to see what will happen between Love and DFW.

As a side note, I used to live in Humble in a subdivision off of Will Clayton Pkwy that was in the direct flight path going east to west into HIA. Standing out on my deck I could see through the windshield and see the pilot/co-pilot. There were a few times we'd wave and the pilot/co-pilot would wave back at us. Our house was pretty well insulated and I became used to the noise but my (now ex) husband never did.

[Rte66]

Talking back to myself here. I wasn't hallucinating, after all. The Llove Entertainment Center was in operation in the main terminal at Love Field from 1975 to 1977. Found these two squibs in google:

"This conversion came after the commercial airline traffic moved to Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, leaving the existing airport terminal vacant. The Llove Entertainment Center consisted of a roller skating rink, dancing area, snack bar, exercise area and ice rink.

Chronology
April 1973 - Initial discussions and proposal for Amusement Center.
April 1974- Council approves Amusement Center proposal of C.W. Goyer, Jr.
March 1975 - Woodlawn Corp. installs Ice Rink.
April 1975 - Walnut Construction Co. - alterations to the Love Field Terminal for Llove project.
May 1975 - Terminal alterations begin.
November 1975 - Llove opens.
May 10, 1978 - Llove closed by City Council."
........
"The night DFW was opened, Southwest moved its operations from the yellow (north) to two former American gates in the green (west) concourse. Braniff also kept some of its Houston Hobby flights at Love and moved to the west concourse as well.

The City of Dallas, unhappy with the court's decision, made things as difficult for Southwest as possible. They closed off the terminal's main lobby and forced Southwest to set up a temporary ticket counter in the baggage claim wing (the only part of the terminal still open). Passengers accessed the west concourse through the connecting bridge American constructed in 1967-1968.

Meanwhile, the city tried to find as many uses as possible for the rest of the terminal. Portions of the yellow concourse were rented out to various general aviation companies, while Southwest put its tiny corporate office in a section of the old Braniff terminal. By the end of the year, all the abandoned jetbridges had been removed and Love Field was looking less and less like an airport.

In a last-ditch attempt to fill the vacant terminal, the extravagant "Llove Entertainment Center" (I have no idea why the owners put an extra L into "Love") was opened in 1975. The former ticket wing was turned into a bowling alley, while the beautiful main lobby was transformed into an ice rink. Upstairs, the Dobbs House Luau Restaurant was gutted and subdivided into two movie cinemas. Fortunately, the Llove venture proved unprofitable and it was shuttered in 1977.

At that point the city reopened the main lobby and Southwest was able to move its ticket counter to its current location - the site of the old ground-level coffee shop. By then the carrier had grown to serve all the major cities in Texas (Braniff had pulled out of DAL in 1976) and now controlled six gates on the west concourse. The other eight gates were sealed off."

[Sally'sConcerns]

Oh my! Lemme see, 25 mi s -- do you eat a lot of RS watermelons, strawberries and tomatoes? Wow, so close to the evil Hburton, too.

We import the watermelon's from RS and grow our own tomatoes. RS is a good 13 miles away! It's sooo difficult to be so close to the evil Hburton. Why, who do they think they are coming into town to go east on 29? Make that turn right onto Main Street too!

Bill & Barb's huh? Now that might be a nice leisurely trip over to Ardmore.

I'll let you know when we go to J&W's.

[Driver32]

Is it just me, or does it look like this plane is giving us "the finger?"

Yeah, but not funny...

[Warriormom]

It's apparent we're not going to agree on Wright. Southwest has a hold on Love. I think American only has 2 gates there.
Wright was put in place to protect DFW. But, what you're missing is that in protecting DFW, Wright protected the taxpayers of Dallas and Ft. Worth who put their tax dollars into building DFW.

Southwest is lying when it says that Wright was passed to protect American Airlines and that Wright is keeping Southwest from flying where they want to. American Airlines was not a major player when Wright was passed and Wright does not restrict Southwest. Wright restricts any airline that flies out of Love just as you noted in your post. Southwest keeps saying that American doesn't want Wright repealed because they don't want to compete head to head with Southwest. American had flights out of Love before September 11th - Southwest, to my knowledge, hasn't ever had flights out of DFW, so just whose afraid of who? DFW has made many generous offers to Southwest - all rejected. There is an entire terminal available for Southwest to "move freely about the country" but they refuse to go there. The only one restricting Southwest is Southwest. Southwest prefers to whine on and on in their TV commercials about not being able to fly where they want to. If they really wanted to fly their customers without the restrictions of Wright, they just need to move to DFW.

[Rte66]

Are you in the Big M? You must be. I used to have cousins of cousins there, but probably not anymore. Somebody famous was born there, but I can't think of who it was. Must have been YOU.

Is the train locomotive in your downtown park or Duncan's? I'm getting them mixed up in my mind's eye.

Don't plan to go to Ardmore--B&B's is evidently gone. Someone told me that 2-3 years ago (the owners retired) and now I can't find a listing online for them. Sorry! It's still a very pretty trip.

And there's Turner Falls and the Chickasaw Natl Recreation Area--the walk around Travertine Creek used to be very nice. Or you can go the opposite direction to Quartz Mtn near Altus--that's a pretty area, too.

[XHogPilot]

Do such systems not rip the landing gear off planes?

Here is the proper description of the Engineered Material Arresting System EMAS as installed by Zodiac ESCO. Google: (link) From reading the numerous descriptions including ESCO, USAF, DOT, and FAA, it looks like EMAS could have been installed at Chicago Midway and prevented this accident.

Zodiac just moved into my research for investment list...

[AmericanDave]

They ran off the end of another runway in Burback a few years ago.

[AmericanDave]

Sorry that should read Burbank, California.

[Sally'sConcerns]

I haven't heard SW ever say Wright was passed to protect AA. I've heard them say AA has fought the repeal of Wright and that's a true statement.

In no way am I missing Wright was passed to protect the taxpayers of DFW. I'm well aware of just whose money paid for DFW and as I stated in my last post, it was probably a good amendment at the time because it made the airlines transfer their operations to DFW. But as I also pointed out, DFW is a mature airport and doesn't need the protectionism of Wright any longer. AA might still need the protectionism but I prefer the free market to decide whether American makes it or breaks it.

Why should SW have to fly out of DFW when there's a perfectly good airport in Love Field? SW was established as a no frills inexpensive way to fly. It's cheaper to fly out of Love than it is out of DFW. Why should SW be penalized by having to pay for additional infrastructure and personnel out at DFW when they already have it in place at Love. The pro-Wright faction want to maintain the old status quo when it's no longer necessary. The DFW area has grown to the point to where it can support 2 airports just like Houston is supporting 2 airports. In reality the DFW area is already supporting 2 airports so why not repeal Wright where any airline who wants to fly out of Love without restriction be allowed to do so? Competition is healthy and better serves the customer.

[Western Phil]

"Is it just me, or does it look like this plane is giving us "the finger?""

This is the new wing design. Probably has something to do with the wing tip vortex and fuel efficiency.

[Sally'sConcerns]

Yep, I'm located in the Big M! I'm not sure who famous was born here but I'm sure there must be someone out there who was. (twasn't me though! I was born in Dallas of all places!)

The locomotive is located in Duncan. We have the chapel in our park along with the hideout they've uncovered where they think the M brothers hid while being under attack. About once a month we have one of the tourist buses come to town to shop at the antique malls and enjoy a reenactment of the M bros. shoot out.

I've been to the Wichita's several times and have also explored some of the area around Pauls Valley. In the spring I plan on going back over to the Pauls Valley area because it's so pretty over there and I haven't explored all of it.

No B&B's then but there's always the onion burger to try! The one thing I've tried and haven't really liked that much are Indian Tacos. Did the Indians really have lettuce and tomato or even pita bread for that matter? The first time someone mentioned Indian Tacos I was all excited thinking I was going to get to taste some true native american cuisine. Oh well!!!

[Warriormom]

I haven't heard SW say that Wright was passed to protect AA either, but just ask someone who isn't as informed as apprently you and I are and they will tell you that Wright is there to protect AA, because the SW pr campaign to repeal Wright leaves people with that impression.

There's not doubt that a repeal of Wright would hurt AA. It's debatable whether the damage would be long or short term. Either way, the North Texas economy will be hurt. The Dallas/Ft. Worth economy was directly affected by 9/11 because the airline industry was damaged. I believe that repealing Wright would have a similar if not worse affect. Wright is still protecting the taxpayers of Dallas and Ft. Worth.

[Sally'sConcerns]

There's not doubt that a repeal of Wright would hurt AA. It's debatable whether the damage would be long or short term. Either way, the North Texas economy will be hurt. The Dallas/Ft. Worth economy was directly affected by 9/11 because the airline industry was damaged. I believe that repealing Wright would have a similar if not worse affect. Wright is still protecting the taxpayers of Dallas and Ft. Worth.

That's where you and I disagree. I don't believe repeal of the Wright Amendment would have that much of an impact on the DFW area. It would have some impact but not very much. Love Field's location and lack of room to expand would prohibit a mass exodus from DFW to Love. I also don't think repeal of Wright would hurt AA all that much either. AA's already struggling because they gobbled up quite a few unproductive routes from other airlines. Remember Braniff? There were other airlines too that AA bought the routes from. AA had to take unproductive routes in addition to the more profitable routes.

I still own three whole shares of Braniff. My Dad used to commute between Houston and Dallas on a regular basis. Braniff had a flight that left Houston at 6:30 and they served breakfast on the flight. Braniff decided to move the flight forward by about 20 minutes and they discontinued serving breakfast on that flight. My Dad bought 2 shares of Braniff where he could write their CEO and complain not only about the time change and no breakfast as a consumer but also as a stockholder.

I'd like to see a non-biased study of Love's capacity for more flights because in the late 80's to early 90's Southwest ran flights out of Love on a regular basis. Back then I was at Love Field every other weekend because my son flew to Houston to visit his Dad. On Friday nights and Sunday afternoons SW flights were leaving Love every 10 minutes or so. I'm just not all that convinced there's room or timeslots available for a bunch of new flights out of Love.

[A.A. Cunningham]

That's the prop but it's not my photo.

[zipper]

I have an acquaintance with an insider source that told me the aircraft was both "high and hot" over the runway threshold. They were supposedly at 250 feet over the threshold, though about 50 feet is normal for either an instrument or visual approach. I don't know exactly how hot they were but even a few knots is problematic considering the short runway and slick conditions. If the increased speed was only a little it could have been due to operational policy in dealing with gusts or even strong steady-state winds, but I don't know what they were calling the winds at the time of landing.

If it's true they were that high over the threshold they the crew will almost certainly be fired.

[Aeronaut]

If the increased speed was only a little it could have been due to operational policy in dealing with gusts or even strong steady-state winds, but I don't know what they were calling the winds at the time of landing.

The NTSB woman yesterday said the winds were 13 MPH. I can't see that as a factor.