Yeah, back in old Ben's day the idea of civilized folks being attacked and killed by outside barbarians was simply unheard of.
Posted on 12/08/2005 8:55:00 AM PST by JTN
Federal prosecutors have dropped charges against Deborah Davis, the 53-year-old Arvada woman who refused to show her identification to federal police officers on an RTD bus traveling through the Federal Center in Lakewood.
Davis' supporters, at first jubilant to learn Wednesday morning that she will not be prosecuted, were dismayed to learn hours later that officers of the Federal Protective Service still will ask passengers on the public bus to show their identification. The policy applies to all passengers, including those, as in Davis' case, who are traveling through the Federal Center and not getting off the bus there.
Federal officials said the Davis case was closed because of a technicality involving a problem with a sign at the Federal Center at the time Davis was ticketed. The sign was supposed to inform people that their IDs would be checked.
"The policy hasn't changed," said Jamie Zuieback, a spokeswoman for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, of which the Federal Protective Service is a part. "There are no plans to change our procedures."
Davis' lawyers said the battle is likely to continue.
"We're very pleased that they dropped charges against Ms. Davis," said Davis' volunteer lawyer, Gail Johnson, of the Denver law firm Haddon, Morgan, Mueller, Jordan, Mackey & Foreman. "But sign or no sign, she and other Colorado citizens continue to have the constitutional right to travel by public bus without being forced to show identification to federal agents."
"I think if the government is going to insist on continuing to violate the constitutional rights of our citizens, then they're going to find themselves back in court on this one," Johnson said. "We're not interested in the Deborah Davis exception."
Johnson said lawyers from outside Colorado had volunteered to help represent Davis following nationwide publicity about the controversy, and that other bus passengers who refuse to show identification likely could find legal representation as well.
"There are plenty of lawyers in Denver who would be happy to help people," she said.
Davis had been scheduled to appear for arraignment before a U.S. magistrate judge in Denver on Friday. She could not be reached Wednesday for comment.
Bill Scannell, a spokesman for Davis and an activist who has helped publicize other challenges to government identification requests, said a rally outside the courthouse, at 19th and Champa streets, will occur at 8:30 a.m. Friday as planned.
He said Davis will speak during the rally and she and her supporters will ride through the Federal Center on the Regional Transportation District's Bus 100 - the one from which Davis was removed for not showing her ID.
Scannell called it "a victory ride," even after he learned that the policy has not changed.
"My anticipation is that the victory riders will be fully exercising their constitutional rights to travel freely in their own country on a public bus," he said.
Asked if some or all of the riders might refuse to show their IDs to Federal Center police, he said, "I think that's a fair assumption."
Zuieback, the spokeswoman for ICE in Washington, D.C., declined to discuss how federal officers would respond to any such refusals.
"We never speculate about what our response is going to be to a specific situation," she said.
She said the dispute isn't about the bus or its passengers, but about the security of a federal facility.
"It's not a city bus on a city road," Zuieback said. "It is entering a federal facility."
Two RTD buses, the 3 and the 100, pass through the Federal Center several times a day. Thousands of people work at the Federal Center, and thousands more visit some of its agencies, including a popular map sales office and a heavily used depository for genealogical information.
In addition, the road through the Federal Center leads from South Kipling Street on the east side of the facility to the Cold Spring park-n-ride at the Federal Center's northwest corner, a major connecting point for buses bound elsewhere.
RTD officials have said some passengers have complained in the past about the federal police ID checks, which began after the 1995 bombing of a federal building in Oklahoma City. The bus routes through the Federal Center had existed for many years before that.
"It's clearly not an ideal situation for RTD or our passengers, but it is controlled wholly by the federal police at that site," RTD spokesman Scott Reed said Wednesday.
"We hope there will be some resolution of this, and we are doing the best we can to comply with their regulations while providing a long- standing service to our passengers," he said.
Davis, who routinely rode RTD's 100 bus through the Federal Center to get to her job at a small business in Lakewood, said she first showed her ID to federal police who boarded the bus and asked to see all passengers' identification, but it bothered her.
She then spent several days telling the officers she didn't have her ID with her and wasn't getting off the bus in the Federal Center anyway. Officers eventually told her she had to bring her ID or she couldn't ride the bus.
Finally, Davis refused on Sept. 26 to show her ID and was removed from the bus, handcuffed, placed in the back of a patrol car and taken to a police station in the Federal Center. She was later released after officers issued her petty offense tickets.
Zuieback said the ID checks are only one part of "many layers of security." She would not discuss the other parts.
"Looking at that ID, having that initial contact with an individual, does allow us to know that that person is who they say they are," she said.
Asked how officers know a person's ID is genuine, she said, "We have trained professionals doing that work."
Who are you?
• The Federal Protective Service says its policy of checking IDs of bus riders at the Denver Federal Center has not changed. Here are the RTD bus routes that enter the center on at least some runs (some routes vary with time of day):
3 Alameda Crosstown 5x Cold Springs Express 14 West Florida 100 Kipling Crosstown G Golden/Boulder
All pass through the Cold Springs Park-n-Ride at Fourth Avenue and Union Boulevard on the northeast corner of the Federal Center.
Yeah, back in old Ben's day the idea of civilized folks being attacked and killed by outside barbarians was simply unheard of.
Most anyone can walk into a crowded airport terminal, where thousands are standing around, and there is nothing to stop that. Even more ironic is the federal government allows and even encourages millions to enter this country illegally, not knowing who these millions are, where they live, or what they are doing. Yet they are so concerned about their federal buildings and federal offices. It's as if the people on the outside of Federal property don't matter, as long as the Federal employees behind the fences are protected.
There's even a federal acronym for Thousands Standing Around.
If you consider doing what is necessary in a time of war giving up freedoms, then you make the call. You question is too generalized to be able to respond. What would be considered giving up a freedom? Think back to WWII. Were some freedoms given up then? Was there rationing and mandatory enlistment, for example? Depending on which camp one is in, one could most definitely consider this giving up your freedoms.
HEHEHE!!!!!!! Like that blunder they made the other day?
This statement speaks volumes! It would make no sense to attempt to correct this point of view. Hint, how long would a list of enumerated rights be???????
Martial Law, now?? Absurd.
You side with the ignorant thought that if we just had a little more security, no one would die at the hands of another.
Not really. If you're going to defend the right of the feds to demand an ID when entering any federal property, then they could practically close down the state of Nevada and much of the rest of the western U.S.
A perpetual state of martial-law lite is exactly what your are advocating. You state we are at "war" - exactly when will we know this war over?
With this new definition of "war", it will never be over and these freedoms will never be returned.
Well I agree, and ID check is not 'securing a facility'. I can't get over the logic of doing an ID check gives a better chance of catching someone than not doing an ID check, though. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Its almost like a computer. If I sit in front of it all day and don't turn it on, there is a 100% likelihood that it won't turn on. If I do turn it on, there is a really good chance that it will turn on, but maybe not 100%.
More accurately, it's like it's like a person who has never played baseball before trying out for the New York Yankees. If you don't try then you know you won't make the team. If you do try out, well...
It doesn't make a lot of sense. But, someone somewhere has to make a decision as to what to do with limited resources. It isn't always perfect. (The border situation is in a class by itself, I think) At this point I can see the case where a Federal facility is more at risk than a shopping mall. That absolutely could change, though.
What are you catching? Lets say the bomber didn't bring his ID today. The current practice on the bus is to let him continue on with a request to bring his ID next time. Yeap, he just detonated.
Or, as the security person is walking up to him, oops, he just detonated.
Or, they enforce the ID request, and have him get off of the bus.
Tomorrow, he returns with his ID. They glance at it, he continues on his way... oops, he just detonated.
LOL! As if no one died in the Revolutionary war.
After he'd been through a war where many thousands were killed. His words come from the experiencing tyranny firsthand and what leads to it.
Good old Ben. Always pull him out as needed..
Yup. It's too bad that we have to keep reminding ignorant people like you what separates America from the rest of the world. But, eternal vigilence is the price I pay for liberty.
It needs to be protected by enemies foreign and domestic.
What threat?? Looking out a bus is now a possible threat?
The PERFECT compromise. Transit passengers are not checked on the bus. The minute a bus passenger gets OFF the bus, she is subject to an ID check on federal property.
THAT is legal, and accountable to federal regulations and our rights.
Yep. Everything in Ben's day was exactly without exception the same as in our day.
Why? What would have a greater impact on the economy, the a Bureau of Mines office in Denver or a crowded shopping mall at Christmas?
""You side with the ignorant thought that if we just had a little more security, no one would die at the hands of another"
I laughed at this.
You forgot to indicate this as sarcasm. Please don't tell me you are serious. If so I will tell you which side you are with.
So you're in the "the Constitution is a living document" camp?
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