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1 posted on 12/07/2005 11:46:31 AM PST by Sonny M
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To: Sonny M
...and only 11,000 are in manufacturing.

This unfortunately doesn't even begin to keep up with the cuts, from GM (30,000) and Ford (30,000) and Northrup-Grumman (2,300)...

43 posted on 12/07/2005 1:38:42 PM PST by Paul Ross (My idea of American policy toward the Soviet Union is simple...It is this, 'We win and they lose.')
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No question. It's been outstanding growth. Finally it's recovery followed by sustained growth. The pattern of classic recession recoveries.

Enter the BLS payroll v. household surveys hubbub -- and (IMO) ILLEGAL immigrants.

I believe that the household shows a loss of 52,000 jobs. Friday, December 2, 2005 BLS Employment Situation.

I recall that only "Bush bashers" would prefer the payroll over the household. What gives?

So how come household shows a loss? And where are its proponents? (Just kidding) Were all those lost jobs farm jobs? If so then they have to be farm jobs when household exceeds payroll, right? :)

Is it possible that it has to do with "recent immigrants" versus citizens and established immigrants?

As reports by, for example, Northeastern University labor studies have pointed out, citizens and established immigrants often lose out to "cheap" labor recent immigrants and I suppose recent immigrants are not likely to be included in the household survey. They do show up on a company's payroll however while citizens and established immigrants are sitting home without jobs.

Consider this Bush bashing, whatever, if you want -- but here's something else that puzzles me. Conservative talk show hosts of course brag about the job figures as well they should. But in the past they and their guests carefully explained how the household survey beats the payroll survey.

These same talkshow hosts also rightly point out at other times that there is a big problem with ILLEGAL immigration -- though some favor flipping over to calling them "guest workers" to solve the problem. Why not consider the two together?

The mainline of both Parties ignore the connection it seems to me.

47 posted on 12/07/2005 2:22:38 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (Hillary is the she in shenanigans.)
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To: Sonny M
Average Manufacturing Hourly wage 14.92. Average "Domestic Service" hourly wage $17.43. People like Roberts are so stupid they cannot even tell convincing lies. I know the Paleos like Roberts don't want to hear it but Smoke Stack industries are dead end jobs for high school drop outs NOT "great jobs". Evolve you Economic Morons. It is NOT 1950 any longer. The world has changed, pity you are too arrogant to change with it.
53 posted on 12/07/2005 5:20:47 PM PST by MNJohnnie (Kerry/Dean Democrats preach lies to cowards, not truth to power.)
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To: Sonny M
However, these gains are more than offset by the job cuts recently announced...

Definite bias..... New actual jobs being offset by future job cuts. (Many of the job cuts are cuts by attrition. Not actual cuts.)

54 posted on 12/07/2005 7:30:31 PM PST by Onelifetogive (* Sarcasm tag ALWAYS required. For some FReepers, sarcasm can NEVER be obvious enough.)
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To: Sonny M

This guy Paul Craig Roberts never has anything good to say about anything.
He is really depressing, and has been for quite some time now.


57 posted on 12/07/2005 8:30:29 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Toddsterpatriot

PCR returns!


58 posted on 12/07/2005 8:33:57 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Sonny M

Paul Craig Roberts doesn't understand the economy.

Job growth means pressure on wages that reverberates all through the economy. In some areas there are no factory worker slots..... full employment. The unemployed are unemployable. They lack skills and the will. Workers will have to move.

This means that immigtration pressure will also increase as low end skilled jobs open up as the current holders find better jobs.

He also doesn't understand that a few manufacturing jobs result in hundreds of service jobs at the banks, the freight forwarders, the container yards, the ports, the steamship lines, DHL, FedX, UPS and all the others in the export chain.


83 posted on 12/08/2005 11:26:31 AM PST by bert (K.E. ; N.P . Chicken spit causes flu....... Fox News)
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To: Sonny M
Food services and drinking places (waitresses and bartenders) account for 38,000.

And what is so wrong about food services?

My son's roommate is a server at a mainstream chain restaurant, and he pulls in nearly $2,000/week, much of it cash.

Of course, he doesn't get health care unless he makes manager, but still what the hey, he is making nearly $100,000 a year and he ain't even 25 years old yet.

126 posted on 12/12/2005 7:28:35 PM PST by Edit35
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