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To: blackie

It is not clear to me how Minutemen can keep corporate law departments from filling out immigrantion forms. They have security guards to keep these kind of people out.

Nor is Schafley very familiar with this issue. Surely there is some difference between a grizzled old COBOL programmer and a young guy with a current skill set.


7 posted on 12/06/2005 10:47:33 AM PST by proxy_user
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To: proxy_user

Having studied the visa process for many years I think Phyllis Schafley understands exactly what is happening.


10 posted on 12/06/2005 10:50:24 AM PST by GarySpFc (De Oppresso Liber)
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To: proxy_user; All

"Surely there is some difference between a grizzled old COBOL programmer and a young guy with a current skill set."

Of course there is, but the young guy with the current skill set does not have the business acumen or experience. There are jobs out there for some of us grizzled old COBOL humps. They're called management, business analysis, etc. This old hump has been doing that for years even though I am currently churning out COBOL code on a project that will have run a year and a half when I'm finished. Then I'll go back to running something. I'll put my almost 40 years of business experience up against the youngsters skill set any day. Granted, I am talking apples and oranges, but these young pups care more about their pristine code than they do the requirments of the application. That's where we can partner.


11 posted on 12/06/2005 10:55:30 AM PST by NYDave (.)
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To: proxy_user

That probably isn't the only thing that isn't clear to you.

Maybe you should look at your attachment to being unclear.


14 posted on 12/06/2005 10:56:52 AM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: proxy_user

The problem with the H1B program is that it discourages Americans from entering IT fields by driving down the wages in those fields. It sends the message loud and clear that IT is not what you want to study if you want to succeed.


19 posted on 12/06/2005 11:01:49 AM PST by elmer fudd
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To: proxy_user
Surely there is some difference between a grizzled old COBOL programmer and a young guy with a current skill set.

Here's the difference (and the process): Microsoft comes up with a whiz-bang project. It combines internet, wireless, security, GPS, operating systems, etc. Microsoft knows that it will need engineers competent in ABC, DEF.2, JKL-M, NPq.r, and STU.11.V, so it sets up a subsidiary in India that trains a bunch of competent Indians full time for a year.

Grizzled Old Programmer has no idea that is likely or even possible that a job could exist a year from now that will require experience in every single one of these completely disparate skills to get his next job. He might be able to pick up one or two on his existing job, but there's no way he can pick them all up.

Microsoft announces with great amounts of crocodile tears that it needs engineers with all those skills for its new whiz-bang project, that it can't find them in the U.S. at any price, moans and groans about the low number of CS and EE graduates from U.S. colleges, and magically finds them in India, fully trained, and at half-price too.

21 posted on 12/06/2005 11:04:30 AM PST by jiggyboy (Ten percent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: proxy_user

"Surely there is some difference between a grizzled old COBOL programmer and a young guy with a current skill set."

Surely there is. However, there are lots of "grizzled old" guys (you know, in their 40s) that have nice current skill sets. I'm one.

I've seen the prevailing wages for software developers deteriorate drastically over the last 5 years. Sure, there was a lack of demand after the ".com bubble" burst. That lack of demand was radically exacerbated, though, by a huge influx of H1B visa holders brought in to combat the *supposed* shortage of qualified software people during the Internet boom. (Hint: there wasn't actually a shortage.)

First of all, the entire H1B program was designed to provide *cheap* technical labor, undercutting free market economics and shafting American software developers. Don't believe the lies about H1B holders making "prevailing market wages", current information shows that was a sham. Second, the program wasn't curtailed whatsoever after the Internet bubble crashed, the politicians simply let American software developers twist in the wind. Even today, engineering unemployment rates exceed national averages. Now we have the H1B program being EXPANDED again. Brilliant.

I find it unsurprising that few students today are choosing science and engineering careers - our society's attitude towards and treatment of those who wish to devote their lives to such things speaks for itself.


28 posted on 12/06/2005 11:21:45 AM PST by PreciousLiberty
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To: proxy_user
Surely there is some difference between a grizzled old COBOL programmer and a young guy with a current skill set.

It is very clear that you do not understand who is being "replaced" with H1B labor. It is American techies who are fully qualified for the jobs. COBOL has been a non-issue for nearly twenty years. Young and middle-aged engineers alike with very current skills are being dumped purely to lower those payscales.

"United We Stand", a load of bullshit.

32 posted on 12/06/2005 2:26:52 PM PST by GingisK
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