Posted on 12/04/2005 7:45:44 PM PST by raj bhatia
The real problem for Ford, and the one that presents a dilemma for American society, is that an industrial-social system pioneered in Detroit in the 1930s has given way to another industrial-social system pioneered by Toyota in the post-World War II era.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
"Ford and GM have tried to embrace lean production methods, but as their market share shrinks, the legacy of the past looms larger. The U.S. firms need to shed large numbers of employees, but the main way to do that under "life-time employment" union contracts has been to encourage early retirement. This has solved one problem -- too many active workers. But it created a second -- too many retired workers for the active workers to support."
Sigh.
americans working for Japanese auto makers in the US earn good wages - but they do not earn the level of wages and most notably retirement benefits of UAW workers. and the japanese's US workforce is much younger then Ford and GMs, a big advantage in terms of wages and worker productivity.
GM is making much better cars these day - they still have some "duds" to be sure - but the new Caddys, the two new Buick sedans, the Corvette and the Solstice roadsters - are all very good.
Those are certainly real "back-end" causes, but you can't discount the consumer perspective:
I see 2 dealerships, one with cool cars at fair prices... the other has overpriced crap and plays shady games to compensate for it.
Guess which dealer I'll buy from...
It was in 1981 when the import restrictions became law that I swore never to buy another GM car, and I have not. As soon as the law passed, GM, who had fought the unions with the threat of Japanese compeition, turned around and gave the company managers huge bonuses and jacked up the price of cars.
Never again, GM.
The essence of lean production is to increase productivity per investment dollar, not profits per share. As such, it protects the bondholder more than the share holder.
I agree with your take on GM coming out with better cars but is it a case of being too late in the day?
How many people can you convince that it is better than a Camry or Accord that sell loaded for <$24k?
I have my eyes trained on the re-designed 2007 Camaro.
I predict they'll screw it up, royally, but we'll see....
that is part of the problem, you are correct - public perception. you can see it in many anti-GM posts on FR - people post here as if the Camry and Avalon were designed by Pinninfarina - when in reality, all of Toyota's designs are boring, plain-jane cars. I see no compelling design issue that says an Avalon is "beautiful" and a Lucerne is "ugly". reliability is another story, but there are plenty of Toyota and Honda recalls that get very little media exposure.
"I see no compelling design issue that says an Avalon is "beautiful" and a Lucerne is "ugly"
A Toyota is very well realized, from the texture of the dashboard, to the "feel" of the switches to the way everything just fits and works together well. There have been precious few vehicles from GM in the past 30 years that could be described similarly with a straight face. That's the difference. I have never owned a car built by an "American" manufacturer, only Japanese, even though the last two were actually built in the US. I'd be happy to buy American, once the quality and performance are up to par. I thought the Chrysler 300C would do the trick, but all the hard plastic in the interior was very off-putting. They're getting close; they just need to realize that fit and finish extends especially to the driving environment. None of them really seem to completely have a handle on that yet.
and the first Hondas to come to the US were rust buckets. its nuts to judge what GM is producing today based on your issue with a car 25 years ago.
I'm personally tired of the attitude from overpaid union
You also hit the nail on the head when you brought up the "customer perspective". It is like walking into a den of thieves going to a dealership, you can be certain that before you leave you will have been lied to and cheated and not even known it and even signed papers with lots of fine print exempting the dealership of any responsibility for the lying and cheating. Also the service fees are ridiculous, if an electronic's shop selling you TVs behaved the way dealership autoservice centers do and tried to charge the same kind of fees you'd demand your money back. Can't do that without a lawyer with cars and houses. I do find it amazing that one has more rights when they purchase a bigmac with rotten lettuce than they do when they fork over a substantial portion income when purchasing a car. I can not wait till the day when the last old style dealership closes and all are replaced with single price outlets. I also think the big layoffs at GM are a good thing, it is painful for the families and for that I am saddened but I can't help feeling that the workers got what they asked for and what they voted for.
"We had a 68 Fleetwood Brogham. Best vehicle I ever owned. Fast, comfortable, and quiet."
The late sixties were the pinnacle in many ways for domestic cars. The long, downhill slide began with smog control and ludicrous battering-ram bumpers, mandated by the federal government. "Downsizing" to meet corporate average fuel efficiency requirements, also mandated by the federal government, led to peculiar looking vehicles with bad proportions, as well as a near-total fixation on front wheel drive. All three built some amazingly uninspired crap, with just a few occasional bright spots. The Mustang and Corvette didn't just survive, they have actually gotten better in every measurable way. But, they still fall short of improvements made by imports in many ways.
I think GM needs to approach this intelligently. My perception of Toyota was formed when I drove a Camry and it instantly struck me---the damm thing makes NO noise. Its like you are driving 2 inches above the road.
Can GM replicate this? Can GM get a characteristic that you and I would talk about similarly and do it at a good price? Anything is fine--Great interiors, best fuel efficiency, really quiet, really powerful etc.,take your pick.
"Some still enjoy American automobiles."
Oh, don't get me wrong, I love American cars from the heyday of the fifties and sixties. Once I have extra garage space, I may try to get my hands on that 66 Toronado in Firemist Copper that I've been lusting after ... what an amazing and beautiful machine. But, as far as day-to-day, it's tough to beat a late model Toyota. I hope that won't always be the case, but that is the case today nonetheless, imho.
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