Hybrids Costing Governments More

PHILADELPHIA-December 4, 2005 - By gradually adding hybrids to this city's vehicle fleet, James Muller knows he's helping to save the environment. What he doesn't know is whether switching to the more expensive "green" vehicles will ever save any taxpayer dollars.

The city just bought 20 new hybrid Ford Escapes to add to the six Toyota Priuses already in its 6,000-vehicle fleet. Muller, Philadelphia's fleet manager, said officials are doing it to improve air quality, but that the upfront costs definitely take a bigger hit on city coffers. "That's what we're finding with the initial cost ... it doesn't wash out," he said. "You're actually paying more money."

It's only been a year or two since many cities across the country started adding hybrids to their fleets, but officials say the initial costs can be tough to bear. And they simply don't know whether, over the long run, the vehicles will end up costing more, the same or less than those fueled by gasoline or diesel.

Officials in Ann Arbor, Mich., decided not to add hybrids to their fleet after determining the costs would outweigh the benefits. Ann Arbor has other types of alternate-fuel vehicles, but found that hybrids just weren't cost-effective, said David Konkle, the city's energy coordinator.

"Economic times have been very tough and we were facing the toughest budget year that I've seen in the 15-plus years that I've been here at the city," Konkle said.

He found that hybrids would cost the city about $8,000 more than other cars it would use and save $300 to $500 a year in gas. "That takes more than the life of the car to make that $8,000 difference up," he said.

Hybrid vehicles get better mileage than their regular gasoline-powered counterparts because the hybrid switches back and forth between an electric motor and a gasoline engine.

In New York, hybrids make sense because the city now requires the purchase of the cleanest vehicle available, said Mark Simon, director of alternative fuel programs.

Simon estimates that the city is spending $3,000 to $6,000 more per hybrid vehicle, and saving $400 to $500 a year in fuel.

"It was not our mandate to save money," he said. "They're expecting us to pay more for a cleaner tailpipe."

In Oregon, Dan Clem has purview over 3,000 vehicles – 123 of them hybrids – as fleet manager for the state's Department of Administration Services.

Whether the state saves money in the long run depends on a number of factors, including how prices change and how well the hybrids hold up, he said.

"If they don't last, then they won't pencil out," Clem said, adding that they appear to be holding up well so far. "It could all go bad if and when the battery packs go bad."

"It costs the city more money to put out recycling bins, but it is the proper thing to do," said Dan Bedore, spokesman for Ford, which makes about 20,000 hybrid Ford Escapes a year. "Eventually, as hybrids become more popular, the price has to come down."

Brian Wynne, president the Electric Drive Transportation Association, said his group is working to try to encourage fleets to go hybrid. While hybrids are a low-risk technology, he said, the price does cause some governments to think hard before buying them.

"Yes, there is a premium associated with buying a hybrid vehicle at this point," said Wynne, whose group's members include vehicle and equipment manufacturers, energy suppliers and others. "I don't think there's hesitancy, I think there's diligence."

He pointed to efforts to bring down the costs, including government incentives and tax credits and increasing the overall production of vehicles and parts.

Bradley Berman, editor of hybridcars.com, a consumer-information site, said fleet managers need to look at how much they typically drive a vehicle and how long they keep it.

"Obviously, the more you drive the more you save and the more compelling the financial equation is," Berman said. Cities such as Seattle and Pittsburgh have made the move to hybrid buses, a use that some say is perfect for a hybrid because of all the stop-and-go, heavy-duty driving.

Brett Smith, assistant director of manufacturing, engineering and technology for the Center for Automotive Research, in Ann Arbor, said it can take five to seven years to start saving on a car driven 12,000 miles a year.

"Certainly there are governments and communities that will make that commitment," he said.

In Garfield County, Colo., County Manager Ed Green said the fleet's 11 hybrid cars are meant to set an example for the community as a whole. But not all governments are in a position to be able to make that statement.

With the reality of layoffs facing Ann Arbor, Konkle said, the expense of hybrids was pretty much out of the question this year.

"Is this year a good year to demonstrate our greenness by buying a hybrid vehicle?" he said. "And the answer was, 'no."'

And you noted that the maintenance savings are $3 million per year. That buys a LOT of diesel.

$44 million ($47 million - $3 million maintenance) buys a heck of a lot more....

You have to divide the cost difference by the life in years of the buses, in order to compare it to the annual savings in maintenance. (I do this for a living.)
Figure ten years for the life of a bus, that's an annualized increase in ownership cost of $4.4 million. Call it six million with interest.
Subtract the three million in savings, and you're still out three million per year- a losing proposition.
Reduce the cost of the buses, improve their fuel economy, and then they make economic sense.

Apparently, you have not experienced the maintenance-free kind. Here's an example.

Mercedes diesels now have maintenance-free particulate filters on over 40 models.

I use B100 year-round, except Dec-Jan, when I go to 10-20% kerosene.

-A8

Thanks! Will bounce that one off the folks at work- we're about to get hit with the new emissions standards for our medium and heavy duty trucks as well as the off-road stuff.
This could be what we're looking for.

I would see what Corning has to offer. They make (or will be making) particulate filters at their facilities in Erwin, N.Y. VW selected Corning to make particulate filters for their diesels. This article talks about that. And they have been making these sort of things (with ceramics) for a long time.

-A8

If I am not mistaken, all modern railroad "diesel" locomotives are "hybrid" as are such ocean liners as the QE2. Why shouldn't they be used in automobiles or other passenger vehicles?

my understanding is, the current Prius has battery
storage of about one kilowatt-hour.

However, the 'brain' of the car only uses 30 percent of that.... the 'state of charge' is always between
50% and 80%, the best for battery life.

I am not saying that the battery life is infinite,
but batt life is way more that could be used,
I mean, how many battery-assisted 0 to 60 MPH
acceleration cycles will the car do in its life,
well , the batt can handle that many,
in part because the electrical assist is
not all that much.

I was referring to the forests being chopped down in South America to plant corn.

I suspected that you might be. You can blame the biggies...Cargill et. al. for that. They simply cannot stand the idea that they may have to pay actual MONEY to buy corn. FWIW, farmers barely break even with the market price of corn...ethanol has given us a small shred of hope. I'm sure the government will allow them to head south, break all kinds of environmental regulations, and cheat us yet again.

Farmers have been the driving force behind ethanol production. Many of the plants are co-ops, or otherwise farmer-funded. Now, when it appears to be profitable (and after letting the farmers take the risk) the big guys will sweep in...with the FedGov by their side to dominate the market; by moving it offshore. And, HAVE NO DOUBT, they will destroy the environment, use slave labor...they simply cannot abide a farmer making money. They are also planning on using sugar for ethanol production.

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