Walker`s World: A 4x4 coalition emerging? (US-UK-Japan-India)

M&C news ^ | Dec 4, 2005, 16:20 GMT | Martin Walker

[SteveMcKing]

You're quibbling like a little girl, as you say.

But if you need proof to make you feel good, as you say, then Williams is an excellent example, as you say.

They bought companies like Kidde, Valor, Heatrae Sadia, with no interest in sustaining them, only in cashing them out.

[Gengis Khan]

No, its not about you.
Razzor was refering to the "India" threads at FR and the large number of anti-India sentiments expressed on those threads.

[Teacher317]

American technology and equipment, the strongest and most reliable ally in Britain, Japan's historical position as China's opponent, and India to help match the population numbers and get in their other border/front. China plus Russia plus Cuba (plus Mexico or France?) would be the logical counter alliance.

[Killing Time]

So no US company has ever asset-stripped a UK sub then?

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

I didn't know the US even had very good relations with India.

We do and have had for a number of years.

[Bogeygolfer]

We also have a shared language with India in many respects. India has the largest number of English speaking citizens in the world.

[indcons]

Depends on what you mean by "majority opinion," GK. If you are talking about average Janes and Joes, most don't really care about India one way or the other. In certain IT-intensive regions, one might come across people who work with Indians or have collegues in India. Outsourcing is a topic of discussion too.

Now, I don't mean to suggest that Americans are not interested in other cultures. It is just that India is a relatively new quantity for them. Most Americans tend to be very open-minded about new people and cultures when they meet a foreigner like me. Of course, there are exceptions and idiots but these are far and few between (in my experience). In any case, every country has its share of nutjobs.

The Bush administration is very friendly and IMO we should look beyond the prism of Pakistan. While US support of the Paki koranimals is a source of frustration for India, we must understand their compulstions too (with the WOT). Personally, I see a great future for US-India relationships at the business, military, and policy levels.

[indcons]

Thought you might be interested in this posting (by me). Any thoughts? Do you think I represent Americans' attitudes toward India accrately?

[Gengis Khan]

I agree with you about the need (for India) to look beyond the prism of Pakistan.

However Razzor and me were refering to the large number of recent anti-India threads and the sentiments expressed therein.

[indcons]

Oh...I agree. There are quite a few muslim trolls too. Then, there are the fools who don't know enough about India and who don't bother to learn.

That said, I was replying to your point about the opinion of the majority of American people.

[Batrachian]

If China is such a threat, which they clearly are, then why do we pay them hundreds of billions of dollars a year to build a first-class military to challenge us?

It's a rhetorical question and I know the answer, but the real answer is that we should stop doing it. I call for an immediate boycott of all things Chinese until this threat is eliminated.

[Gengis Khan]

The Free Republic India and Indo-US Issues Ping!

 

Pinging you all!

[jimtorr]

I've only seen anti-India sentiments expressed by a few ignorameses who are really only angry at jobs lost to out-sourcing and anti-Christian activities by Indias own share of ignorant and/or violent Muslims and Hindus.

Perhaps I just missed the anti-India threads.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

I like the Hindu nationalists. Language, borders, culture... we could learn a few things from them...


We have a choice, trade with and align ourselves with the world's largest democracy (India) or the world's largest dictatorship (China).

The choice is easy for me...

[familyop]

Yes, indcons, you wrote a good synopsis of the situation. I'll put it more bluntly for GK.

Most of my fellow Americans are ignorant of how we are regarded by most Indians who know anything about the USA. The piece you posted above was written through British eyes. Most of us are also ignorant about how we are regarded by most British people (like the writer of the propaganda piece above). Most in the USA are ignorant of the evil meaning and international backstabbing behind the phrase, "Pax Americana." We don't want "empire," and most of us do like the Indian immigrants and visitors we meet. For one, they are not as condescending and cynical toward us as are certain Europeans.

If the most tolerant and caring people of India continue to educate us, we will learn.

Those who distributed the recent anti-India columns that you've seen are members of small Christian identity organizations. They seek to divert America toward allying with countries where majority sentiment is in favor of religious fascism. They are more tied to religious sentiments in Europe (Italy, Russia, Serbia and others) than to the USA.

Some background for you on religious issues in America:

In our US Constitution, we have a clause for freedom of religious expression and another one against establishment of any one religion by our government. Those words are in our Constitution, because the first Europeans to arrive and survive in America sought to escape the Catholic edicts of Europe in those days (see Reformation, meetings in Holland, the English Civil War,...). They were the true Protestants (which Protestantism has been since overwhelmed and is now quietly reviving). They would not have crosses in their churches, and they despised celebrations like Halloween and Christmas as "paganism." Many true Protestants now are going Noachide (learning about Judaism with intentions to convert). A few others have been going back to Puritanism, Calvinism and other truly Protestant faiths.

But our Constitution remains the same on religion, and it will remain so due to the mixture of cultures that live in and enrich our country. And remember that most people in the USA don't have strong religious beliefs at all. They rather indulge in their daily personal affairs without much regard for written philosophies.

[familyop]

Now I'm going to give that British you-know-what writer a piece of my mind! ..."Pax Americana," indeed! He and his kind may keep their projections about "empire" to themselves! I'm tired of their back-biting against us in other nations.

[indcons]

The Europeans haven't been able to adjust to the fact that even their former colonies in Asia like Singapore and Malaysia matter more to the world's economy today than they do.

The European ingratitude is surprising given the US help during WW1 and WW2. Socialism has destroyed the Europeans; they seek to deflect the blame for their own faults towards the Americans.

[familyop]

The British writer of the article mentioned "Pax Americana" three times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Americana
"The term Pax Americana . . . It places the U.S. in the military and diplomatic role of a modern-day Roman Empire or British Empire (based on Pax Romana and Pax Britannica, respectively) . . . The term Pax Americana is used by critics of U.S. policy to describe an effort they allege is made by the U.S. to suppress countries that do not cooperate with U.S. policy, . . .


Most British writers--Conservative to Labour--use the phrase for the purpose of defaming the USA. Others use it in hopes that we'll help them get their "empire" back and in their twisted belief that we want an "empire." Either way, it comes out to all other countries as anti-USA propaganda. And why didn't you already know about it? ...because almost all of them are using it purposefully to defame us to other potential allies, and they don't really want us to see it.

Yes, Tony Blair sent troops to Iraq, but most Britons were and are very much against that.

[NZerFromHK]

I would say British anti-Americanism has three fronts: the usual leftist self-loathing faction as represented by Ken Livingstone, a remnant High Tory faction headed by Sir Max Hastings, and a "Let's join the EU" Wet Tory faction led by Ken Clarke and Chris Patton etc.

Sure, there are plenty of Poms friendly to Americans - historically Sir Winston Churchill, or Margaret Thatcher in our times are notable examples. Unfortunately I don't see that many in prominent circles at the moment. Indeed if you check many British FRers' post the sneering towards America do exist consciously or subconsciously.

[familyop]

"The Europeans haven't been able to adjust to the fact that even their former colonies in Asia like Singapore and Malaysia matter more to the world's economy today than they do.

The European ingratitude is surprising given the US help during WW1 and WW2. Socialism has destroyed the Europeans; they seek to deflect the blame for their own faults towards the Americans."

Thank you. That was well written. For other who read this thread, interesting original documents can be found on the US Monroe Doctrine. Britain once sought to pair with our US leaders to occupy and use parts of South America and Central America. Other countries in Europe (Spain and France, IIRC) sought to do the same. All, including Britain, were rejected by our Monroe Doctrine in favor of leaving Central America and South America alone to become independent and free. But be wary of the many paraphrased Web pages full of rhetoric to obfuscate the truth of the Monroe Doctrine.

Almost all Americans reject "empire." Russia has used murderous tactics and threatened the USA to get its satellite countries back under Russian control. In the process, Russia has militarily allied with Iran and somewhat with China. China wants to conquer Taiwan. Iran threatened to wipe Israel off of the map and would attack Iraq again (or attack any other country to advance radical Islam).

Our US leaders look for like-minded international friends and negotiate peacefully except with nations that seek to attack us with force (as Saddam Hussein and his government in Iraq did).