Posted on 12/02/2005 9:54:26 PM PST by Jay777
Thanks for that--it's a good find. It's proof that even Benjie Franklin was a believer in slavery. Just like you.
Orwell no, Constitution Yes. If you do not like living in a free country might I suggest China, you will be safe from terrorists there. No rights but safe from terrorists.
Nonsense. Your hatred of Franklin is noted.
You quote Ben Franklin clearly stating that most of a person's private property is not actually his own, but is subject to regulation and expropriation by others. Unless there's something wrong with the quotation you've produced, Ben Franklin didn't believe in private property (and apparently neither do you). Translating that into "hatred of Franklin" is either exceptionally stupid, or just plain dishonest.
You fabricate.
Is it true that less than all the possible embarkation points are staffed with searchers? I believe I had read something to this effect on FR a couple or so months back. Thus no real deterrent effect to somebody who truly does want to get a bomb on that train by hook or crook -- just an inconvenience factor.
" But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick..."
--Ben Franklin
I think we've spoken before. I didn't remember your name, but your trolling style is familiar.
You invoked Franklin, ignorantly. Now you denounce him, hypocritically.
The troll formerly known as roscoe.
"All Property, indeed, except the Savage's temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."
--Benjamin Franklin
That is precisely Marx's doctrine of private property: you own the clothes on your back; "society" owns the rest. Your view of private property is Marxist; your quote suggests that Franklin's was as well. I'm disappointed in Franklin, but unsurprised at you.
That's not what Benjamin Franklin said. You invoked him as a supporter of your "philosophy", but turned on him once it was clear that he wasn't a witless anarchist.
"By an universal law, indeed, whatever, whether fixed or movable, belongs to all men equally and in common, is the property for the moment of him who occupies it; but when he relinquishes the occupation, the property goes with it. Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society." --Thomas Jefferson
I quoted one statement that is true on its own merits; anyone who sacrifices freedom in exchange for security deserves (and will get) neither. You produce a quote in which he advocates a socialist view of property, which apparently you also endorse. Note that your quote goes beyond "trading freedom for security", and denies the existence of freedom in the form of private property rights. IOW it goes way beyond a conservative accidentally playing into the hands of totalitarians, but rather represents an embracing of totalitarianism.
"By an universal law, indeed, whatever, whether fixed or movable, belongs to all men equally and in common, is the property for the moment of him who occupies it; but when he relinquishes the occupation, the property goes with it. Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society." --Thomas Jefferson
Be careful not to read "the gift of social law" to mean "a privilege granted by the state." It's true enough that a coherent theory of private property ownership is late in coming to our species: naturally enough, the cavemen were not exactly noted social philosophers. There is nothing objectionable in Jefferson's statement per se, though you clearly apply a socialistic interpretation to it.
His statement is not 100% accurate, though. Ownership via homesteading was not developed as a theory until after the Enlightenment, but as a practical principle it was followed in ancient times. Primitive peoples would indeed defend their summer hunting grounds from anyone who occupied them in their absense; to that extent the principle of property ownership is well precedented throughout human history. Similar principles were observed in the ancient Middle East cocnerning the ownership of wells.
Thus the concept of stable ownership is older than Jefferson seems to imply, though only in recent centuries has their been a theory to support it and a reasonable practice of it in the civilized world.
But answering you seems pointless, as you appear indefatiguable in your pro-socialist trolling.
No, you paraphrased and misrepresented Franklin's quote.
Ownership via homesteading was not developed as a theory until after the Enlightenment
Who said otherwise? You're babbling.
Have a nice day, troll.
Have fun at DU.
...says the guy who believes Marx's theory of property rights. As socialist trolls go, you're pretty good.
That would be you.
Even if the borders were closed these steps would be necessary.
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