Posted on 12/01/2005 11:27:55 AM PST by Spiff
Good write-up. Your daughter's science teacher is a sneaky bastard. He should not be trusted.
I tend to agree with your son's History teacher. The thank you note should simply thank the speaker for his time. Simple courtesy.
It would have been best if he had questioned the speaker in class so that the debate could have been presented to your son's classmates, however I do understand shyness. Perhaps your son could include a list of questions to the speaker with his thank you note (which would show interest in the topic without insulting the speaker), and suggest that he answer them on a return visit (or to the History teacher). Such as:
(a) is the Islam concept of "peace" the same as the Western or Christian concept of "peace"?,
(b) why are nearly all of the terrorists in the world Muslim?
(c) why are all of the world's present conflicts on the edges of Islamic civilization?
(d) why was Margaret Hassan beheaded?
I think you should both encourage your son to be polite, and applaud his protest.
Your son has a really good opportunity to learn the art of persuasion here, and of learning the difference between being strident (which is alienating and never wins arguments), snd of really trying to win people over -- which always requires class, tact and an ability to reach people on a heart level.
I really do applaud you for your dedication here. You are doing a great job. Your kids are very lucky. Thanks for the update.
Your son makes me have so much hope for our future! There was nothing wrong with the content but he might have said it a little less bluntly (e.g. I really enjoyed your talk but I was curious if there was a reason why you didn't specifically mention torture, honor killings, blah, blah, blah) but he's a kid! Plenty of time to learn diplomacy.
I commend you and your wife and your children too! How I wish I could read more stories like this. Thank God the principal seems decent. The science teacher is a zealot and he should not be bringing his "religion" into this science class if you ask me.
Thanks for the update!
I have a couple to add:
-Why are honor killings allowed in their culture/society?
-Are women treated with respect in this culture?
-Of the countries rated as "bad" (or lowest) regarding quality of living, technical advancements, etc., why are the top 7 of 10 the countries that have muslims as their majority?
I have more but this is a few.
What could possibly be construed as "strange" to a layman that would be a normal occurrence? Please enlighten me.
In History class yesterday one of the high school teachers had come over and given a presentation on Islam. This teacher served as a Christian missionary in an Islamic country. He mentioned that he had to do so secretly or he could have been killed for trying to convert Muslims.
I think that this teacher, by serving as a missionary and mentioning that he could have be killed if discovered, isn't the enemy of you or your son. I think this might be a good opportunity to teach your son about being politely critical to people who are generally on your side and being more strongly critical of those on the other side. There are any number of reasons why this teacher might have taken a soft approach toward Islam and class time is limited. And, frankly, I'd argue that public schools should be teaching children to hate Islam, anyway.
I agree with you. I never said that my son should consider the teacher an enemy, or that the teacher did anything wrong. In fact, the teacher even mentioned that he could have been killed for what he was doing and that he had to keep it a secret while in the Islamic country. And I don't want the school to teach the kids to "hate" Islam, just the full story on what happens inside Islamic countries.
Keep up the good works (and the updates). May God bless you and your family.
Something that stands out for me in your very interesting reports is that school subjects don't seem to mean the same thing as they did when I was the age of your children, and attending public school. 25-30 years ago, "science" was about things that could be observed, measured, calculated, and experimented upon. Label and describe the sub-cellular bodies. Calculate the workload using a single-pulley system, a double-pulley system, etc. What's the result when you combine chlorine and ammonia? (Evacuation of half the school, but that's another story.)
Your daughter's science class isn't about any of those things, but about political philosophy and other, at best, "soft" sciences. If there is any genuine science content, you have not yet mentioned it.
World history, when I studied it, contained facts about things that happened in the past in various parts of the world. We didn't have comparative religion presentations or attend fantasy films under the heading of "world history," although that might have been appropriate in a literature class.
I don't know whether this replacement of factual with opinion-based content is something that has happened generally with the passage of time, or whether it's a characteristic of your school/school system in particular, but I would find that trend to be just as disturbing as the ideological slant of the courses.
And regarding your son's letter, I agree with those who said that you've got an opportunity to show him how he could convey the same meaning in a more diplomatic way. What he wrote was not *exactly* rude, but it was very blunt, and some guidance would help him to be more effective in communicating in future.
My wife just got a copy of the letter that my son wrote and it is largely as I described. However, he prefaced the letter with "You are dumb" and it was a direct attack on the teacher. I don't know why the principal and the teacher were not entirely forthcoming about it when my wife was there. My son will certainly be disciplined for such an attack and will have to apologize. He has a right to his convictions and should never hesitate to speak them, but he can't be disrespectful to a teacher or attack them like this.
Actually, it was rude. See my previous post on the matter. We're going to use this as an exercise in how to make your point and how NOT to make your point.
Okay, thanks for the clarification :-). Your original paraphrase was blunt, in a perfectly natural 11-year-old way, but not rude!
I don't let my children listen to talk radio, and one reason is the excesses of expression that presenters can indulge in when they're not going to get a response from people with whom they have to associate in real life. My oldest daughter (14) fancies herself as the next Ann Coulter (or maybe the next generation after that :-), and I've explained that Ms. Coulter's style, verbal and physical, is part of how she "sells" her message to a general audience. In our family parlance, "It's her Act."
Celebrity journalists (or whatever, exactly, they are) need an Act to get attention and sell advertising, but we can have and express strong conservative opinions without an Act, too.
By all means applaud the protest. Your son didn't "attack" anyone by pointing out the ommisions. Stay the course!
You might want to check with a lawyer on the legality of taping conversations, etc. I know that in Illinois you can tape any conversation that you are a part of; e.g., you can tape your own phone calls without telling the person on the other end, but not a phone call between two other parties (without a court order). You don't want to give this science teacher a legitimate way to tie you up in court.
Yeah, but what about when she left the room for the Principal's office? And does that cover conversations in her presence that she's not part of, such as when the teacher is talking to one of the kids?
I'm not opposed to your efforts by any means, I just want to make sure your wife is not unintentionally exposing herself to legal action.
In California, I know charters still have to follow the state guidelines for education. If this is the case in Arizona, I would check to see what 8th graders are supposed to learn. If the text does not follow the state guidelines, then I would bring it up with your board. At least, it is a small number of people you are dealing with.
If the state guidelines talk about this stuff, then you're in for a bigger battle, and there really is not much the charter school can do.
This is my big beef with the public school right now.
I went to a meeting for parents of gifted kids (my kids are), and all the meeting was about was bringing up the scores of gifted kids that didn't do well on the standardized tests.
The district personal actually called science/history/social studies enrichment programs. When did those things become enrichment?????
I'm going to try to transfer my daughters to a charter, but that is going to be difficult because one of my kids is special ed and our district has to okay the transfer.
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